Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

There are quite a few threads about say, women being bullied by other mums at school or ostracised in Whatsapp chats, left out of group invitations with the clique

I am not seeing men online complain about this kind of thing...

Men aren’t expected to befriend ALL other men, just because they both happen to be fathers.

’Be Kind’ is toxic, not femininity.

That's so insensitive for a nurse to say that to a new mother

Good point, motherhood is an area where women can absolutely be toxic towards other women & there is immense pressure on us to have the "right" kind of birth

Eg: The idea that you're somehow less than if you didn't have a natural birth "Too posh to push"

But who expects women to befriend all other mothers?

Wouldn't that be an example of women expecting that of other women?

I think men might not talk about things enough but I don't know many men who can suck every single scenario like I have seen lots of women do

made up example

new neighbour brings over muffins to introduce themselves, man says thanks and eats it

woman go on about how many calories 'don't they know I am trying to lose weight, they are saying i can't bake, they are judging my parenting and saying I should be baking with my children and not working, they fancy my husband, they are going to want me to do favours for them 'and so it goes on

It would help if you actually knew what toxic masculinity was before starting a thread.

toxic masculinity is a toxic expectation of men, ie ‘real men don’t cry.’ So toxic femininity would be something like ‘real women never get angry and make a fuss.’

No it’s society as a whole. Men expect women to be friends with their male friends girlfriends for example. We’re expected to make the effort because we’re women.

That should say

No it’s society as a whole. Men expect their girlfriend to be friends with their male friends girlfriends for example. We’re expected to make the effort because we’re women.

Nobody? Do you? I'm not friends with any other mothers IRL. (School mums and the like) Not enemies, don't dislike them particularly, but equally don't feel the need to be friends.

Goady usernames are very (gender neutral) toxic.

I can say that modern feminism negatively affected me as a woman

So no just because I'm female does not make me a feminist & have never identified as one

When the whole trans thing came out I briefly thought I was a TERF but sadly the feminists hounded me out because I dared to say that Trans was not just a women's rights issue but a wider social issue that affects both sexes

Plenty of women around the world don't subscribe to feminism or agree with the trends of Western woman today

If feminism was the default for women & we all had to subscribe to it, wouldn't the feminism sub be front of centre discussion & as widely popular as AIBU?

Isn't it hidden away because not everyone here wants to partake?

Plenty of other women in other cultures do not subscribe to the tenants of modern day western style feminism - are those women within their rights to disagree or are all those women just ignorant & oppressed?

But if you're going out with someone

Is it unreasonable to expect that they get along with your couple friends in social situations?

Your initial post doesn’t make sense…the first two sentences have nothing to do with one another.

Jesus. What did I ask... 😳

I wouldn't say that's an absolute. My H has never expected me to be friends with his friends wives. They're older and there was a bit of a disconnect. But all v civilised etc. But it was unlikely we'd just magically be friends. And one of my BFs was older than they were so not being ageist, it's just you can't expect randomers to just be friends really can you? Iyswim

When the whole trans thing came out I briefly thought I was a TERF but sadly the feminists hounded me out because I dared to say that Trans was not just a women's rights issue but a wider social issue that affects both sexes

Hounded you out? 😅 Of where? They would obviously want to talk about how the trans thing impacts women in particular, safe spaces and sports.

Look. Feminism is different things to different people. They aren't one hive mind. If you've met one feminist, you've met one feminist. They don't speak for everyone. You're doing that thing incels do where they take their bad experiences with a few and apply it to all.

Thanks, like this example

Reminds me of the thread from the other day where the Mum had bought the daughter's school friend some new school shoes as her pair were falling apart

That woman certainly copped a real lashing from other women due to how the gift could be negatively perceived by the other mother

Of course it’s not an absolute, just like not all men are violent. But there’s an expectation society, including men, that women are the friendly ones, that make an effort. If a man doesn’t smile it’s unnoticed and unmentioned, if a woman doesn’t smile they’re asked ‘what’s wrong’ or they’re ‘being moody’ etc.

Trotting out pedestrian sexist tropes is most certainly a toxic trait 🙄🙄. Nothing to do with femininity however.

the tendency to escalate bullying to physical assault is just an example of how bullying behaviour tends to be worse/more serious/more dangerous/more harmful/more prevalent amongst boys/ men. Of course bullying amongst boys/men also involves social isolation and reputation destroying ,
how absurd that you think it doesn’t. 😂😭🙄

HTH.

So you think that type of response is another form of toxicity? Someone questioned your motive for posting and you immediatly ascribed toxicity to that, rather than that the pp was genuinly asking why you posted in such a fishing style?
Pot, kettle and black comes to mind...
Altho haven't heard word daggy for a few decades, so thank you for the memory...

Feminism is a group ideology & theory of belief

So there are core tenants, principles & rhetoric surrounding it & what it means to be a feminist

Yes you're right there are feminists that do disagree with each other on certain issues like say, surrogacy or Trans ideology

:ike with say, Christianity there are various different practices within the religions

But essentially they all fall under the same umbrella & underpinned by core beliefs + practices

That was because it’s odd to buy a child a new pair of Clark’s school shoes. I read that to my male partner and he thought the same. Some of the responses may well have been from men on the thread.

See this is why people are arguing with you. You think females being toxic = toxic femininity. If anything, it is the opposite. Femininity is about being meek, quiet and nice and pressuring other people to be meek, quiet and nice.

Being nasty to someone on a thread is none of those things.

I think it's tenets.

The first poster is correct, feminism means different things to different people.