Can school do this? - managed move

[Bonnyswannie]

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

Flamme. You have no idea if this child has adhd. Everytime a student has issues with behaviour someone will say the child must have adhd. She may or she may not but the op has said before that the child never had problems with her behaviour before she made friends with older naughty students.

@Twiglets1 a managed move is a bit more complicated than simply calling it so. It is quite a lengthy process and it should only be used when a child is at risk of permanent exclusion.

They need to show they have put support plans in place , made adjustments and interventions. They need to have meetings with the new school, the parents and the pupil where everyone agrees to the move. They need to provide an action plan , risk assessments etc for the new school.

At the same time, a school that tries to force parents and pupils to accept a managed move , can be reported , and if the allegations are found to be true, considered automatically inadequate by Ofsted.

This school hasn't done any of that. So no, they can't even consider to categorise it a managed move now , much less force OP to accept it as such.

It's like you finding a new job, giving notice and your boss deciding actually, we're firing you for gross misconduct.

The school didn’t turn to a managed move, the family decided to move the child and the school are calling it a managed move.

I know all about ADHD as used to work in a support role in a school as mentioned. But schools can’t excuse all behaviours on the basis that a pupil has SEN, they still have certain expectations that most pupils follow regardless of whether they have ADHD or not. Of course schools should work with the family to try to support any child that is struggling with the school expectations and find a positive way forward that is helpful to the child, & sometimes adaptations to the rules will be suggested. But we actually don’t know what the school has tried or not tried in this situation, I think people are making assumptions. In my experience schools do try very hard, particularly with their SEN pupils and a new school won’t necessarily make all the problems disappear. The move would be more likely to be successful if the family work with the new school by not minimising their child’s behaviour issues but rather exploring the reasons for them so solutions could be found.

My only thought is that the school suggesting a managed move may actually be them trying to support her. A managed move means the new school can send her back to your school if the.move does not go well.

If the current school wanted to wash their hands with her the managed move is not in their interest at all. They are ensuring she has a school place if the move does not work out.

There is nothing in it for the school, they wouldn't be doing it out of spite.

They haven't put any of the work in though. Starting the process now , could delay DD's start at the new school. Bypassing the process would be illegal.It could make the new school reconsider their offer. It could interfere with DD getting a real fresh start.It would be on DD's record. Why would OP want her DD back to a school that made her miserable, regardless of how the move goes?

@ASighMadeOfStone my dd wasn't assessed until year 10 for ADHD. It's very, very common that ADHD in girls isn't picked up until puberty, so right around year 8!

Im not wrong as part of my job is holding schools to account for suspensions and organising panels. Thanks though 🤣

I work for an academy trust my lovely so know far more about "how they operate" than your average parent.A large part of my role is suspension based. No blinkers here, just factual knowledge 😊

@Sofiabella I don't know why you find that funny? Anyway maybe the schools that you have worked with are different. Our school and many others on this thread and known to me in real life suspend for little or nothing. There isn't always a backstory, or more to the story.

"Suspend for nothing." Absolute facepalm. Parents who believe their children do no wrong are such a problem in today's society.

In tears except for when she's laughing in detention.

The lengths some people will go to just to avoid saying that sometimes a kid (regardless of condition) is just plain naughty

@Sofiabella the thing is, it absolutely can happen , especially in schools with blanket rules/policies and that punish a lost/forgotten calculator the same as bullying or violence .

For example, a set number of detentions (6 in a term at one school) is automatic suspension for a day. However , when detentions are given for forgetting your calculator (even if you don't need that day), not having a reading book for mandatory free reading sessions, no compass/rules , going the wrong way in the one system etc (as well as more serious incidents/disruption) it's not that hard to add them up , especially for struggling kids. Even for good kids , but it's easier for them to keep the number low. The school the. needs to now apply the 6 detentions = suspension the same way to the scatty kid as they would the school bully.

Of course, in either case it's not for nothing, but some things are more nothing than others.

Second day of spring 2, 85 kids in DD's year group (y7) had lunchtime detention for lack of some equipment or other.85 out of 200 odd. They had to do it outside as no classroom was big enough. Plenty more from other year groups as it was a whole school check. For some it was their first one, for some their 4th or 5th, for some their 6th so they got a suspension on top too.

I disagree.suspwcted SEND would be sensible reason for a managed move to ensure needs are being Ng met, continuity etc.
It's not always a negative thing and it doesn't mean there has been horrendous behaviour etc.

Laughing when nervous isn't unusual, especially in ND learners.

I also work in this field and it can vary enormously between schools, LAs and MAT trusts. But there is an enormous issue of schools suspending and perm exing learners with autism and ADHD for presenting like a person with Autism or ADHD.
The gap between what Ofsted wants schools to operate as (strict uncomfortable uniform, zero exceptions to a blanket approach, punishments for every minor infringement such as forgetting an item, everyone studying 'traditional' subjects) and what we know works for SEND and vulnerable learners (trauma informed approaches etc) is widening.
We are making it harder for those who already find it hardest.
OP I would engage with school over the managed move, it means they are recognising that she needs a careful transition and they may be additional support available through the process.

I hate this obsession with uniform, I have worked in education for 22 years.
The kids this hits hardest are:
Those with families not doing a good job of looking after them
Those living in poverty(buying the uniform/cleaning it, we know there are umpteen kids living in temp accommodation for eg)
Those with disabilities that making fastening items such as ties, buttons and belts difficult
Those with sensory processing issues which make items such as ties and some fabrics unbearable and tolerating this takes up a huge amount of mental bandwidth reducing their ability to concentrate and stay calm/regulated.
Those with executive functioning difficulties who take a long time organising and keeping on top of their belongings.

And sadly there are plenty of teachers out there who don't get this and see child A who has had no majority difficulties to overcome in getting to school, in a uniform that doesn't cause discomfort, with parents who made sure they had their kit, turned out beautifully, and judging them to be 'good'.

The seeing child B, whose parents may not have the money to replace outgrown items, who finds their uniform unbearable, or who is already shaken up because there has been shouting and upset of having to put on clothes they hate the feel of, and they are feeling anxious knowing that however hard they try they will forget something and end up with a detention. And they go into school emotionally elevated, a teacher speaks to them critically and they snap back. They are then seen as 'naughty'.

So much of what happens in schools has nothing to do with learning, is done out of some daft social idea of what school 'should' look like and makes it far harder for many to do what they actually should be doing - learning.
Again, I say that as someone who has worked on education at levels from class teacher, SENCO and SLT to LA level.

But you have no idea that she does not. Given what OP says about her difficulties, including with coping with just getting into school, it's looking a high probability, but on any interpretation your assumption that she's just a badly behaved child isn't based in any evidence.

And none of that has any relevance to the school's wrongful action in trying to force a managed move.

A managed move means the new school can send her back to your school ifthe.move does not go well.

No, it doesn't. Check out the current guidance. If schools want to effect a temporary placement elsewhere, they have to do it via their powers to place pupils offsite.

You know about how one academy trust operates, not every school.

The lengths some people will go to to avoid saying that sometimes a child's behaviour is down to neurodiversity not naughtiness.

Flamme. The child got told off for looking out if a window once, truants lessons, argues with teachers, doesn't wear the correct uniform and hangs around with other deviant kids is not really enough for her to be diagnosed as ND. Many kids with adhd are not rude, defiant and don't truant or kick up a fuss about wearing school shoes.

Not at all, my role involves working across a wide range of MATS as a panel member for IRPs and I've never ever heard of a child being suspended for "nothing." It doesn't happen.

Hrtft but ds had a managed move but it didn't work out. Not making eye contact with teachers was 1 reason.. . An educational psychologist told his new school he had to be educated as if he was on the spectrum.. Can you ask for a similar assessment op? He know attends a college for 14 to 16 year olds.. Much better environment for him.

Defiant kids

I wasn't going to come back to this thread but it was still on my computer and I made the mistake of updating it.

For the love of Jesus, cansu, there are PLENTY of ADHD kids out there who are rude/defiant and who have sensory issues. OP said her child is on the ADHD pathway which means CAMHS has done initial assessments and deemed it necessary to proceed to further steps. My teen is in the same situation. Do you know how long the waiting list is for an actual ADHD assessment?

Make a guess, go on.

Months? Nah. Two and a half years. 2.5 years. For a diagnosis.

Meanwhile our kids are spiralling and people like you are unhelpfully chirping on about "tHeY doN't sOuNd ADHD..."

And the school-to-prison pipeline continues with a fuckton of undx'd people getting further into trouble.

But people like you don't care.

Because you'd rather see them PUNISHED!!!! Punishment and conformity are #1 in your book and how dare a child look out a window or be different or wear an elasticated skirt instead of a "proper" one?!

People like you don't give a shit about kids being micromanaged because any slipup has to be a kid's fault--it's easier for you to think that way rather than admit the system is breaking/broken. You don't want to put the time or brainpower in to consider any underlying cause because RULEZ ARE RULEZ.

Meanwhile I've got a daughter on the ADHD pathway (which, once again, means she is showing enough signs of ADHD to be put forward for a diagnosis, but hasn't received one because CAMHS is severely underfunded), and I am at my wit's end trying to help her fit in. I fucking cry most weeks.

And you know what? It's people like you who make it twenty times worse, sitting there in your armchair bleating about how kids who step out of line ought to be punished, no exceptions. Fuck their mental health. Fuck their neurodiversity, they're bad kids. Chuck it in the fuck-it bucket and just put 'em in jail early, right?!

I mean, we're heading that way in some schools already: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/cages-installed-midlands-school-stop-28867469#ICID=Android_BMNewsApp_AppShare

Anyway, this is beyond depressing. Thanks to those posters who bring actual nuance to the discussion. You give me hope that my kids will find their places in this world.