Can school do this? - managed move

[Bonnyswannie]

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

My old school year left school over 50 years ago, we used to roll our skirts up, wear make up and constantly forget our gym and cookery stuff, so nothing changes! No sanctions were ever imposed at what was a rather strict girls’ grammar school though just a mild telling off. We all turned out alright.

My secondary was like this in the 90's. Best school in area for ofsted and results. We respected our teachers and if we received a consequence we knew we'd pushed a boundary too far 🤣

Roll on 30 years and it's the worst in the area for ofsted and results. It's also the strictest with these zero tolerance practices and uniform inspections. 🤔

Condolences OP, I hope this get sorted for you. Do you think its perhaps an issue of the school being way over the top, and this then gets DD back up, which then makes DD act up, so the school retaliates (for lack of a better phrase) and it becomes a vicious cycle? I'm not saying DD is at fault, as really in that situation if DD is getting worked up by their over the top strict rules, they should be meeting her halfway and helping her to follow most of the rules in a way that is manageable and works for her, not just blanket punishing her. Eg helping her find ways to remember her PE equipment or pencil case iyswim?

I went to a highschool that sounds very similar and honestly I still look back on it now and think, what the fuck was their problem? My head teacher had some kind of complex about the fact we were a public (as in, not private - different country terminology) school and not a fancy private school like Eton or something!! Some memorable ridiculous things they enforced:

• Forgetting your blazer, or being caught not wearing your blazer (even outside school premises) was instant detention. The teachers would stalk around the local shops after school and pounce on any student who wasn't wearing a blazer and give them detentions! I wish I was joking, it was bloody mental. Blazers were compulsory all day long. Even in the summer. We were in Australia, no one wants to wear a fucking blazer in 40 degree heat
• They decided that as our particular year was so naughty and disobedient, our entire year wouldn't get to have the normal camp or formal that every year got. The year before us and year after us got it, but we didn't
• Lessons had very strange arbitrary times. For example, first class of the day would start at 09:03 and if you arrived at 09:04 you'd get a detention. The class would finish at something like exactly 10:17
• You sit outside before school and for lunch/breaks no matter what the weather, and you aren't allowed back inside if you've left your lunch/water bottle/whatever in your locker. Sit outside in 40 degree heat while the teachers enjoy their air conditioned rooms
• Raincoats were banned. Umbrellas only with the school logo. Even if you rode your bike to school, no raincoats - either find a way to ride your bike holding an umbrella, or get soaked
• Literature was a compulsory subject at equivalent of GCSE/A levels for EVERYONE. Even if you had no interest in studying literature and wanted to go into STEM, or arts/drama, or music, or whatever. You'd be forced to give up a subject you were good at, enjoyed and perhaps might be useful in your future career/studies because the head teacher was adamant that if you didn't study literature you'd grow up to be uncultured swine or someone who reads the Daily Mail. I was very good at maths, but wasn't allowed to do A level/GCSE equivalent maths because it was so important I did literature (and didn't have space in my timetable to squeeze maths in)

I wonder if that head teacher has ever managed to pull her head out of her arse and realise what a twat she was

To be suspended they have to have been involved in incidents of alcohol/drug abuse in school, physical assault, verbal abuse, persistent disruption, abuse against protected, and serious bullying.
Not necessarily not doing homework, I was saying afterwards yes possibly more the persistent disruption of not doing homework and possibly answering back but definitely definitely not always serious enough to warrant suspension as opposed to detention (in my sons school) and we’ve all discussed it amongst us and it’s the general consensus within the years my sons are in

Yeah just take her out and on to the new school - sound like her current school don't understand her needs. I'm sorry you got some shitty answers here OP - some people do not understand that some schools are rubbish with managing behaviour. I work in schools across the UK and see some great schools and some utterly awful one (often the great schools in terms of supporting kids are RI and the crap ones 'outstanding'!) , part of the roll is being involved in challenging managed moves and P ex's. Schools will tell you they have 'done everything' to help a child but when you actually ask they have done very little - including failing to follow guidance from professionals such as EP's or even following an EHCP.

I had it with my own daughter - managed move 'discussed' threatened half way through GCSE - I very calmly asked what would be different in the new school and they banged on about it being more academically challenging - I suggested they try being more academically challenging themselves - and refused to move her !

ern… she is clearly badly behaved. Burst the bubble love

If children need parents to make sure they don't forget things then maybe, just maybe, punishing children for forgetting things, is inappropriate?
Either its the child's responsibility or the parents? Which ?

Erm... that's irrelevant. Bad behaviour does not give the school the right to try and change an in year transfer into a managed move.

Ah shall I just leave them to it then and not bother trying to find out why or give her the opportunity to change it?
just put her down as a naughty kid yeah who doesn’t deserve any fairness yeah?!?

My son’s school keep school books on the classroom so that they don’t have the issue of not forgetting them and they aren’t breaking their backs carrying to and from, and all around school every day. I think it’s a genius idea and works well for my son (my poor daughters have to carry theirs and their bags are so heavy some days!). We did manage to her to school with no school bag one morning though! Cue frantic drive home for me to go and get it and bring it back to school!
We also have a timetable pinned up
on the wall to ensure we remember laptop for English and PE kit etc

I'm not the OP, but my daughter also wears her skirt short. Frankly, I don't care what my daughter does with her skirt. It doesn't affect her learning one bit. Crazy focus on uniform is usually a sign of a rubbish school with teachers who would rather focus on tiny misdemeanours than teach properly.

We moved from a crazy strict school to a more normal one and my daughter is absolutely excelling whereas she was in constant trouble for ridiculously minor things at old school.

Sorry to derail but how is the College working for your DS please? Mine is now more than likely going back to his mainstream secondary after an awful time and they've suggested a College

In mumsnet land there are no rude and badly behaved children. It is simply the fault of too strict schools. In the real world there are plenty of students who argue with teachers, truant internally and make schools miserable for others. They are also supported by their parents who will go to any lengths to make it someone else's issue.

So what would you have the OP do, @cansu? Meekly roll over and accept the school's out-and-out lie that her daughter needs a managed move? Not bother to look for underlying issues and simply, what, punish? How? (Are you one of those "bring back the cane!" folks? or are you simply ableist?)

Also, kindly explain how a parent can prevent in-school behaviour. And I mean this with all sincerity - what are your suggestions? If a parent cannot sit in the back of a classroom, or follow her around in a school setting, how the EVERLOVING FUCK are we supposed to prevent bad behaviour?

Punishment at home doesn't fix school problems, as much as you'd love to think so.

I bloody empathise with the OP. My youngest is in y8, totally fine in primary apart from slight attention issues, easily corrected. Fast forward to secondary, she's falling apart and I'm desperately contacting the SENCO for help. SENCO doesn't engage. I've got to do all the footwork through the GP. CAMHS takes her on, agrees high probability of ADHD, meanwhile she's continuing to spiral at school because they don't believe she's got ADHD, so it's detention for forgetting a green pen, and now I've got a child who's starting to get the mindset of "if I'm getting punished for forgetting a specific pen, I might as well go ahead and be REALLY bad" which is something I'm desperately trying to fix through meetings with school, reasonable adjustments, and discipline at home.

I mean, I'm careful about posting on Mumsnet these days because there are a ton of posters who viciously parent blame, but it feels like it's next-level at this point, like a proportion of you don't actually want our kids to exist in society anymore. As if some of you prefer to see a kid suffer rather than wonder how we might change the system for the better.

And actually having posted those last two sentences I do think that's what it boils down to - intolerance and hatred. Coupled with a heaping spoonful of "fear/hate the Other."

OP, you're not alone out there and I'm wishing you the best.

What do I expect parents to do? I expect parents not to minimise the impact of poor behaviour and I expect them not to seek to blame school staff when their child is truanting, swearing at staff and disrupting lessons for others.

I expect them not to sit in meeting laughing when their kids are rude. I expect them to keep them at home when they are suspended rather than allow them to hang around the school waiting for their mates to get out. I expect them to show up to parents evenings. I expect them to make sure their child is wearing their school uniform when they leave rather than buy them air force trainers and refuse to buy school shoes. I expect them to be bothered that their child does no homework and has missed shed loads of work through hiding in school toilets with their mates. I expect them to support school sanctiond rather than tell school staff and their kids to walk out of detentions and refuse to hand over their phones.

However generally they only care when their child is on the edge of being excluded. Then they get interested because they face the reality of their child being at home or that their child may have to go to a less convenient school or a school without their mates.

I expect them to make sure their child is wearing their school uniform when they leave rather than buy them air force trainers and refuse to buy school shoes.

Black air force 1s are the most popular school shoes in the school my daughter attends. They are also good for kids' feet. I don't see why some schools forbid them as school shoes? Many many schools allow them to be worn as school shoes. Generally, I'm not going to support school rules that don't make sense.

None of that is relevant to this thread though if you want to have a thread to moan about the state of behaviour and attitudes in schools, and the parents' part in it , feel free to do so. I'll support and applaud you and share some of my own frustrations. It has nothing to do with a school interfering with an in year transfer though. It's also not fair to take your frustrations out on OP (and her daughter ). Even if she is THAT kid and OP is THAT parent, they have not interacted with you or made YOUR life harder.

A poster asked what I expected parents to do. I have answered her.

If you don't like the uniform go somewhere else. It is utterly ridiculous to select a school and then moan that you don't agree with the rules.

I appreciate your response. I honestly doubt that type of parent bothers to post on Mumsnet, though, and I have actually only encountered one of those uncaring/incredibly irresponsible parents ever, despite being in an incredibly diverse area. I really feel that the vast majority of us are trying to get to grips with a school system that is creaking along on the edge of breakdown. I really cannot tell you how demoralising it is to see constant messages along the lines of "it starts at home" and "it's the parents!" when my kid is struggling in a shitty, underfunded system that values neither teacher nor student.

And yet I rarely see people scrutinising MATs or OFSTED's ridiculous attendance targets, or chronic underfunding, or the teacher shortage (apart from blaming pupils again). I really am just so dog-tired of the "blame the individual" game because it's detracting from fixing the system. IMO, the same folks who keep pointing fingers tend to have authoritarian leanings and something about punishment and the continuous call for discipline appeals to them. But that's getting pretty deep for Mumsnet I guess.

I have yet to come across a child with ADHD who forgot to come to school in their shoes. Especially if their mum also brought them to school.

@Soontobe60 have you come across a child going home with two dresses on? Or forget to go to the toilet WHILE they're going to the toilet in upper ks2? And plenty of other ridiculous and bonkers scenarios that just happen.

Plus OP explained anyways, her daughter took her shoes off in the car, then forgot and walked off .

Shit happens.

Thank you so much and I hope things get better for you guys too. My dd has also started saying that if she’s doing 1.5 hour detentions she may as well actually misbehave - it’s hard because half the time I’m not even told what she’s done or the context of it. Sometimes she doesn’t even know

so You have judged my issue with a school trying to say my in year transfer should be on a managed move based on your experiences as a teacher rather than the information I gave because none of anything you have listed is relevant to this case

Well you just did 😊

And you have taken that out of context but hey that’s not a surprise