Can school do this? - managed move

[Bonnyswannie]

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

Thank you for saving me having to repeat myself yet again!

How do you know what the teachers at this school want? This is the school that has failed to take the basic step of requesting an EHC needs assessment for a child who clearly qualifies for it. Those are not teacher who want the best for the child in question.

Why should OP accept a managed move when she can move her child to a school which clearly has a much better understanding of ADHD?

Why did you let her leave the house without shoes or let her go into school without them?

I didn’t please read my posts

You're out of date in terms of your knowledge of managed moves which can no longer be reversed. You also make the mistake of thinking your own experience reflects the practice of schools everywhere. The fact that your school would not have done this lightly does not mean another school with a falling roll - like the one where DD's daughter is - would not suddenly seek to impose it to disguise the fact that yet another family is voting with their feet. Remember the Exclusions guidance emphasises that the first step is to consider special needs, whether more support is needed, and whether an EHC needs assessment is required - and this school has done none of that.

Yet again, you do not seem to realise that this school did not "turn to" a managed move to eat with a behavioural issue. They didn't take any steps towards this until they realised OP was about to move her daughter to another school. They also seem to have ignored the fact that they could not impose a managed move without a parent's case, which could lead to Ofsted finding them to be inadequate.

Why should OP try to "work with" this school when her child is moving to one with a much better understanding of ADHD and SEN?

It was indeed a grossly disablist response which I hope MNHQ will delete. There really should be no place for such revolting attitudes here.

Honestly some of these responses from people saying they work in eduction are very scary

@Bonnyswannie if it helps to ease your mind a bit, I also work in education. I can read and understand what I'm reading though.

Almost certainly because they already have a seriously falling roll and wanted to disguise the fact that another pupil was leaving due to their inadequacies. As you point out, moving the child on is indeed not in their interests so they wanted to discourage and/or disguise it. The relevant guidance says that the original school should be able to show that appropriate initial interventions have been carried out first including, where relevant, multi-agency support or statutory assessments. This school has done none of that. It also has to be voluntary whereas this school seems to have been trying to tell OP that she had no choice.

Your information on managed moves is out of date: they are no longer temporary. You need to get up to speed on that before pronouncing further.

On the contrary. Sadly in Mumsnet land there is a substantial minority of posters, featuring all too many teachers, who think schools can do no wrong, there is no such thing as learning disability, and providing support to disabled students is just pandering to them because really they should be punished for being disabled. Also that schools should just disobey the law whenever it is inconvenient to them.

Absolutely this. The time teachers spend enforcing this absolute bullshit is what is disruptive to the education of all the children.

“I never had a detention.”

Of all the things anyone has ever bragged about on the internet, this might be the most pathetic. And the internet has been around for a while now.

For anyone else who else who views a post by the concerned parent of an ND child as the perfect opportunity to call attention to their own impeccable parenting skills, fuck off.

Or at least redirect your anger at me, since I have just besmirched your delicate virgin eyes with profanity.

That implies parents get a say in which school their kids go to - a lot don’t. A lot of
kids get allocated schools by the local authority irrespective of the “choice” their parents select on their admission form.

Really hope your daughter settles into new school. The ignorance on this thread is disgusting and even more so because a lot of it is from teachers.

My DS go to a school just like this. It's very hard to get on the right track as they are pulled up on every little foot stepped out of place. The slate is never wiped clean in the school despite what they say.

@Sofiabella you're wrong actually. When I was in school, suspension was held for really serious offences. My son's school hand them out every week. Detention even more frequent.

The school doesn't sound like the right fit for your daughter. Also many other students too, if they are leaving.

I wish her luck in the new school, but she does need to cut the backtalk as it's annoying to teachers and students alike.

The rest about missing kit and uniform is nonsense.

I use to find it hard to conform to rules in school as some were pointless and had nothing to do with learning. It's was not like I was in the army.

However it's important to be respectfully to the teachers, and teach her to highlight injustice in the correct manner.

Parents should always try to work with schools and OP herself admits their child has behavioural issues. Which is obvious anyway from the fact the school would even consider categorising it as a managed move. Normally when pupils leave to go to another school, no one would think to call it a managed move.

In that case take your child to a school which allows them. This the issue - parents agreeing for their child to go to a school and not agreeing with the school rules. Minimising behaviour causes so much disruption to the majority of children’s learning, including their own.

Some academies are ridiculous. Well done OP for moving your DD!

My DC have loads of friends who attend top private schools in London because they do orchestras with them. In many of these top private schools it seems the kids are allowed Air Force trainers as school shoes, short skirts, not a big deal if something is forgotten either and they can access their phones too at certain points during the day. Yet these kids still do incredibly well academically, sports, music, drama, the lot because they are treated like individuals and valued.

In our grammar schools there are no such very petty rules either. They do set a lot of homework and high expectations, but the rules are really not as petty. Mine have never had detentions. Instead I might get an email from a teacher to me stating your child has forgotten their physics book 3 times (turns out it is the same colour as the Chemistry book so he got confused). The emphasis is on working WITH the parents, not AGAINST them. I think the same must be the case in private schools, the parents are valued clients, the grammars know we are educationally supportive parents.

Children with ADHD need clear routines and checklists at home/in their school bag and pack the bag the night before, go through all the lessons, lay out the uniform. They need to develop routines and strategies in a supportive manner to deal with their ADHD as best as they can. If they are not supported, then they go into fight and flights and everything goes wrong.

She sounds incredibly disruptive. All the time her teachers are spending trying to get her to concentrate and behave is time her fellow pupils aren't being taught.

It's even more ridiculous to suggest that people realistically have a free choice of schools and can just opt for the one with no uniform. What are they supposed to do if every school in the area makes a bit Thing of uniform? Or if they live in an area where all the schools are full so that they have to put the nearest school first on the list or risk their child being placed in the failing school miles away? What should parents do if they select a school with a sensible attitude to uniform, their child settles in, and then a new Head turns up who insists on an expensive new uniform and detention for pupils who have a button undone at the wrong time?

Tell me, what on earth do teachers think is to be gained by insisting on strict uniform rules? Surely their time is better spent in teaching than nitpicking about what style of shoes children are wearing?

She has behavioural issues which are highly likely to be due to ADHD. It's pretty clear also that she has quite severe school-related anxiety. Schools are subject to guidance which makes it very clear that, before turning to things like managed moves, they should be looking into the possibility of SEN and should be bringing in outside advice, asking for an EHC needs assessment etc. It doesn't appear that this school has done any of that.

Parents can't work with schools when schools ignore their duties and statutory guidance and turn to punishment instead as the easy option. It does seem pretty clear that this is not a genuine managed move and is prompted by OP's decision to take her child out, especially given the school's falling numbers.

Why do people on here have this peculiar perception that moving children to a school with sensible uniform rules is always an easy option? In so many areas the reality is that parents only have the choice of one or two schools. This simply is not a sensible response.

Tell me, exactly what harm does it do to a child's learning to have a free choice of reasonably sensible shoes like air force 1s?

Her teachers should be using their time sensibly to get the right SEN support, in that case. Breaking the law to impose a managed move is clearly not the way to go, and sets a very poor example.