Can school do this? - managed move

[Bonnyswannie]

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

This

impulsivity is not an excuse for abusive behaviour.

you can be ADHD and not abuse everybody.

managed moves are not light things, your daughter has been awful and you need to support her to make better decisions, rather than blaming the school or teachers.

Even if it is, OP is simply doing an in year transfer. Her current school can't insist that this now becomes a managed move simply on their say so.

Can you help her with some strategies to manage her ADHD? A visual list of all she needs for school in the morning? Helping her spend 2 minutes the night before getting her bag ready?
What other areas does she struggle in? Look with her strategies to help manage these difficulties.

Won't solve the current school issue but will help her develop her self management skills!

The Department for Education's guidance on managed moves here - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64ef773513ae1500116e30db/Suspension_and_permanent_exclusion_guidance_september_23.pdf - emphasis that managed moves can only be done on a voluntary basis and require parental consent. If there is evidence of schools pressurising parents to agree to a managed move, Ofsted must take this into account and the guidance expressly says the school is likely to be found to be inadequate as a result. I wonder if your daughter's school is aware of this?

If you have written evidence of what the school has been doing, I suggest you send it to Ofsted.

Back chatting teachers disrupts the whole class, don't minimalist this. Stick to the rules and school is fine. Backchatting and messing around ruined my DD's school experience, she's autistic and needs a quiet ordered atmosphere, she ended up being taught separately (more teaching herself) because other students misbehaved so much, their parents didn't realise that their kids backchatting the teacher was so disruptive to others either.

She did pretty well due to me teaching her rather than school!

This unfortunately is the sneery reality of today wokeness when you can be anonymous behind a screen. People do look down on those with additional needs like adhd but pretend they don't.

I do wonder how there is so much bullying of my disabled son in the village Cubs if the adults are so woke nowadays and Be Kind. It's a front.

Even NT struggle in strict academies. Did I hear that 44% of kids are unhappy nowadays? There must be hard core majority still that you beat ADHD out a kid. Or grind it out of them.

Suspending for a skirt is harsh. But add in missing lessons, not being coy when she is told off etc the school probably just want rid of your square peg as they are a round hole school. The sad part is that no one wants to help her more than they want rid of her. Over 40% of the prison population has AHDH I think. Shame that they was helped before they completely went off the rails.

It sounds very much as if the school should have applied for an EHC needs assessment long ago, and in failing to do so it has failed OP's daughter. In those circumstances I'm not sure how much I would listen to them.

Tell me you know nothing about ADHD without saying you know nothing about ADHD.

I agree with PP who said that the school are probably trying the managed move angle so that their figures don't show another pupil choosing to leave the school, especially if this is happening a lot.
I feel lucky that the school DS attends, while strict about uniform, equipment and respect also has great support with ADHD and SEN requirements. It is a fine line between making DC feel overwhelmed with too many things to remember and not wanting their forgetfulness to impact lessons.
And to be honest, when they start work, there will be consequences for forgetting and losing equipment or uniform, so this can't just be ignored.

OP says her daughter is in tears every single day and is unable to sleep and has meltdowns trying to get into school. Is that true of five children in each of your classes, and is it typical teenage behaviour?

The sheer intolerance of disability on this thread is so depressing.

Schools are becoming so focussed on some things that they seem to forgo the teaching and learning - and I work in education.

I'm all for infirm and it being worn properly but I don't believe a student will learn less because their skirt is rolled up or blazer sleeves are rolled up (because they insist pupils wear them when it's 25° 🙄)

I've becoming even less sure of their tactics since I've seen so many pictures of our outstanding local independent school with amazing results that still offers 100% scholarships for bright academic pupils with pupils with extremely short skirts.

If these schools can excel without measuring skirt length why can't others?

With regards managed move. If a school has a place and has offered it then I'd move her. If they are accepting her place then there's no reason for the other school to dictate how the move comes about, managed moves are for moving pupils who need a fresh start elsewhere (sometimes because of risk of exclusion) where a place wouldn't or can't be offered under normal in year acceptance. If a school has a place the current school has no jurisdiction on you accepting it or taking it up.

The school are clearly trying to support your child. Surely a 'managed move' is there to help her settle into the new school, help the new school understand her needs so they can put support in place for her etc. Would you prefer her to just rock up at the new school Monday morning and let them deal with her issues blind?

You clearly have no idea about how some academies operate. They make a massive Thing of discipline because it is so much easier than providing motivating teaching and they move to suspension, exclusion and, yes, managed moves with ludicrous speed if they perceive that a child with learning difficulties might dent their statistics. I think you may be the one with blinkers.

It's clear you don't know the first thing about ADHD if you think it's as easy as not allowing them to forget stuff. It doesn't work like that. You can prompt and remind constantly, write notes, have planners, take stuff to school yourself etc.. but unless there is someone with them constantly an opportunity will arise somewhere during the school day for them to forget.

Dc forget where they are meant to be, which corridor to use, where their timetable is to check, where their locker is, which books to get from the locker if they happen to find it or remember the key. It's a constant struggle. Before diagnosis they had constant late marks. Since diagnosis and support is in place they are thriving.

Genuine ADHD is very real and destroys lives. You don't get high level child DLA for nothing. It's certainly not a matter of allowing them to forget which is a staggeringly naive comment.

Oh and OP ignore the ignorance on this thread.

My ds did managed move at end of year 7 into 8. Because he went to an idiotic establishment that refused to understand ND. He wasn't even in trouble - ever. But he did have issues with severe anxiety, was referred to camhs who diagnosed school related anxiety and then couldn't attend after being a victim of knife crime in a classroom which school minimised.

I've had so many people say "he must have been moved due to his behaviour". He never so much as a detention in either school. He also got an ehcp soon after the moved which I had applied for during year 7 and that school didn't even respond to Las request for information.

Agree about consequences later in life however punishing these kids is not the answer. It doesn't work for one thing! ND kids need to be taught strategies for things they struggle with and given understanding whilst they learn which strategies work for them.

It's unbelievable isn't it.

OP's daughter has not been showing abusive behaviour.

No-one can "be" ADHD. It's a condition which people have.

You clearly have no idea about how some academies operate. They make a massive Thing of discipline because it is so much easier than providing motivating teaching and they move to suspension, exclusion and, yes, managed moves with ludicrous speed if they perceive that a child with learning difficulties might dent their statistics. I think you may be the one with blinkers.

That's my experience. As soon as it was clear my ds needed and would get an ehcp they just saw the £sssss they'd have to invest and upped their anti.

They didn't even respond to the LAs request for information after the application - we both received the email with the deadline for this - and even claimed they didn't a) have to provide any and b) had a deadline to send it. They sent this to me in an email.

The crap they get away with is mind blowing if you've actually been involved in it.

My saving grace for ds is I work in education so know the law and could point out in one email sentence which duties weren't provided.

That's why they hated me and launched a personal attack against me.

Because they wanted to get away with lying - and I wouldn't let them.

How are they trying to support her when they have not applied for a needs assessment? Let alone when they are trying to impose a managed move illegally. OP's posts make it perfectly clear that the new school won't be dealing with her daughter's issues without full information from her.

I always find it fairly amazing how often schools that claim to be very hot on discipline ignore the law themselves. It's hardly setting a good example to their pupils, is it?

Not read full thread, only up to page 3, but wanted to say re: ‘back chat’… with Sen (ASD maybe other things), there may be miscommunications that may look like back chat, eg ‘are you looking out of the window, Jack?’ answered with ‘yes miss’ (as the child with ASD thinks that an honest answer is required), at which point the teacher goes ballistic. I had to explain to my dc (very upset and unable to understand what they had done wrong as he had just answered the question), that when a teacher tells you off about something, or asks you about something which implies a telling off is on the way, you have to say ‘I’m really sorry miss, I won’t do it again’ rather than actually answering the actual question. The ‘yes miss’ answer he had given to the teacher in year 9 resulted in a detention, and an underlying assumption that he had an attitude problem, for the rest of the year (which is possibly self-fulfilling with a child with ASD, as if the teacher’s attitude to then is a bit hostile then it may trigger things due to the unfairness (things being unfair are a massive trigger). Dc has not had that teacher since year 9, which is a relief.

Schools are often really rubbish at dealing with ADHD but they are usually a lot more tolerant than work places. I teach a lot of children with ADHD and the majority are not rude to teachers and are lovely to deal with. For your daughters sake I wouldn’t let her use adhd as an excuse for being rude as it won’t help her get on in life.