Can school do this? - managed move

[Bonnyswannie]

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

Thank you
althougb I preset like this on this thread I can assure you I don’t to my dd, or in front of her as I know if I did it would make the situation 1000 times worse and she would never get in school and it wouldn’t improve. much to her annoyance in her world I don’t see her point,
I think my resentment mainly comes from being suddenly told this would be a managed move when this is something I did independently.
ibreally do feel for you. I on multiple occasions asked my dd to think about teachers side, she always empathises with the teachers about the kids who actually swear and are abusive to teachers. That’s not ok and if that was what was happening I’d come down like a tonne of bricks.
I think what happens is thy she forgets stuff gets a sanction then argues it because she feels it’s unfair. There was one occasion she walked off from a teacher and got a detention she said the teacher was shouting and she couldn’t get heard so she walked away.
im sorry you went through that I certainly don’t role model that behaviour to my daughter.
I understand that but issues around lower level things like forgotten equipment are causing dd to not want to go to lessons as she feels powerless to prevent it escalating. It isn’t working for her, she’s never ever had an issue with following rules the other 7 years of her education.

Actually her school agree she exhibits signs and told
me that it’s very common for the wheels to come off at this age for girls as they are very good at masking. Which I strongly believe is what has happened for DD. Iv always thought she showed little traits but it never affected all that much for the outside world so we would never have met the threshold for a diagnosis

Then we school have already said that a managed move is not required thank you

Yes and it hasn’t as my updates say.

I already did this and the place was confirmed when the school found out they told me it would need to be a managed move based on her behaviour points. So that was why I was asking if they can do this as up until I put the wheels in motion for a school
move they never suggested this.

the new school have since confirmed that this is not a managed move as the behaviour is low level.

This brings back so many memories! I did really well academically, but was so disorganised! Always late for school, forgetting things. The school didn't know what to do. In theory, by their own rules I should have been suspended for lateness, but I wasn't actually disruptive.

The behaviour will continue at the new school unless you stop trying to be your daughters friend and defending her unacceptable behaviour. Back the school and see how quickly things change. Your daughter will thank you for it.

That's the issue isn't it? OP is just moving her daughter to another school as an in year transfer. Her daughter's school want to make this a managed move instead with no previous warning.

Define unacceptable behaviour.

I think what happens is thy she forgets stuff gets a sanction then argues it because she feels it’s unfair

If it turns out she has ADHD or Dyslexia - for example - forgetting things is a known trait - therefore she is being punished for her disability - the school have on one hand agreed she may have a disability and therefore should treat her as if she does.

You wouldn’t punished a wheelchair users for not taking part in a 500M sprint.

I would if you need to asked them about inclusion and treatment of disabled kids - which are covered under the disability act.

I don’t know if you have looked at the ADHD support group or Dyslexia.org as there are clear guideline treating children with conditions.

As for the doubters - I believe you! Been there done that!

A managed move is very serious. You absolutely do not get one for lack of equipment or uniform misdemeanors. However truanting lessons is very disruptive and can be dangerous (if that's what's happening).

Most schools have a very long way to go towards accepting and adapting towards neurodiversity . However, they sadly reflect life in many (not all) workplaces. Letting students think that their ND excuses them from everyday life is doing them a misservice. I don't mean reasonable adjustments such as time outs, adaptive technology, smaller classes, and changing uniform (could go on with what SHOULD get provided but doesn't).

ALL students need to be able to interact in a safe and well behaved manner for the good of all. I mean the big stuff like not swearing at staff, not throwing equipment, not bullying others, Not wandering the corridors disturbing other lessons by shouting and banging doors. Sadly all types of young people, including those with SEND are unable to confirm to these very basic expectations.

The biggest issue for me as an ex teacher was when parents wouldn't work with the school to overcome difficulties because it was 'their condition and they can't help it.' I used to feel like saying yeah but there are five other students with significant SEN in the class of 32 whose sensory needs also need to be taken into consideration and your child is making their life very difficult.

TLDR: students with SEN can be supported to do well at school if parents are on board too, it's highly unlikely that your child is being moved for minor infractions. Also schools are shit for those with ADHD so I also have massive sympathy for your DD.

Some schools are just awful. I have a friend who has a child with ASD, the DC has meltdowns and school refusal and when the parents manage to get the child in through the front door the child gets punished for being late. This is supposed to be a school that was set up to meet their needs but the school is massively exacerbating the problem.

I hope your DD has a better experience at her new school. Also that she understands this is a fresh start and even if they are more understanding they will still have rules, and she needs to follows the rules so as to not get off on the wrong foot.

I haven’t rtwt but this sounds exactly like my friend’s daughter (same age too). Turns out she has ADHD - now taking medication and things have turned around dramatically for her. I hope your DD gets more support at her new school

I have two ds who both have ASD and ADHD. DS2 was diagnosed by 5 but DS1 didn't get diagnosed until around the same age as OP's DD.

DS1 attended an academy with super strict rules and never did a day pass he wasn't getting told off or punished for low level infractions. Things like forgetting equipment, losing his stuff. Another common one was being late to lessons (he took long routes between classes so he could avoid corridor crushes he knew he couldn't cope with). He'd get detention, then forget the detention and get another for that. The effect on his self esteem and general happiness was huge. After diagnosis things didn't get much better even though SENCO always said the right thing. We did after that though refuse to support the school with detentions received which obviously relates to his neuro diversity. His secondary school years were really hard.

When DS1 went to college he was better supported, focused on subjects he enjoyed and treated more like an adult. The change was immediate. He's now doing really well at university.

We moved before DS2 went to secondary. The school he is at is absolutely amazing. They support all the kids to learn. There is a uniform but not imposed down the the nth degree. A kid in black trainers or with dyed hair isn't going to have their education disrupted for that. Genuinely disruptive behaviour is dealt with effectively.

Good luck with the move OP and do press for diagnosis. It's so useful for getting support in place.

I think you are underestimating how disruptive she is being the situation is worse than you think

Thank you, glad to hear both your sons are being supported now.
yes my dd absolutely knows she needs to stick to schokl rules but the new school will carry on with her education regardless as to whether her skirt is above or below her knee

Oops sent to soon and regardless of whether she may have forgotten her calculator
my dd started to avoid lessons and skip as she saw that as the easier route than turning up and getting a sanction for forgetting something

My old school year left school over 50 years ago, we used to roll our skirts up, wear make up and constantly forget our gym and cookery stuff, so nothing changes! No sanctions were ever imposed at what was a rather strict girls’ grammar school though just a mild telling off. We all turned out alright.

If the new school has a place then it has to admit your daughter. They are not allowed to refuse. The current school is talking rubbish, and I am frankly wondering whether they ae worrying about the fact that they may be liable for disability discrimination, given that they do not appear to have been making reasonable adjustments for or helping your daughter, and have been punishing her for the effects of disability.

A suspension is supposed to be close to the last resort, but some academy schools use ludicrously rigid discipline policies which don't take neurodiversity or learning difficulties into account, and which mean that children can escalate to suspension far too quickly for relatively minor issues.

They can't insist on this if the child is leaving anyway.

I think what really stresses DD out is the red marks on the class charts and her dad seeing that. It makes her want to try and convince them to take it off. They worked out that she was afraid of her fathers reaction and used that to make her tell on someone who was vaping, which then led to her being isolated by a group of people.
a telling off and a lecture Is fine she gets that’s anyway but phone calls to both parents and negative behaviour points and being told by teachers they give up on her is not working for DD

I have since spoken to the new school and they were bewildered by this suggestion. Dd has not bullied, been physical, sworn or shouted at teachers. She has forgotten items, not adhered to keeping her skirt below the knee, worn mascara, worn jewellery she shouldn’t have (it’s been confiscated), challenged when she has detentions, back chat and on one occasion for a detention for looking out the window during a lesson (I kid you not).

you have no idea have you? for some parents getting their child through the school gate at all is a huge achievement.. presumably you've never had to dealmwoth a panicking child lying on the floor sovbing, pulling you back as you try to get them into school... feeling absolute guilt about having sent them at all.

and then being judged and them being punished because they were wearing the wrong socks or they don't have a glue stick or the water bottle was forgotten.... walk a mile in someone else's shoes

if you leave or don’t attend a detention you get an automatic suspension. My dd left the detention as the teacher told her to get out (she was laughing at a friend, again not ok in a detention and i am not excusing this). She left the detention and went to fine the other teacher and got told off for being in the halls. She went back to the detention room to tell them this then got told to leave so she left the school site.