Buying a house with in-laws

[ohmyohmy123]

My in-laws are in their 80's - both DH and I work full time and have children, pets etc. we live quite close and try our best to support them. They are now at the point that they need regular care which is difficult as we take turns to visit each evening but they are isolated and lonely and it's hard work to try to leave - they find jobs for us to do or complain we've not been there long enough.

DH sibling lives too far and sees them once a month so it's all on us.

They have a cleaner and a gardener but complain about having to pay people when they have family near by. They expect my children to support with gardening etc (they are 12 & 14 and do lots of extra curricular activities so rarely get time. They do small
Jobs like putting their bins out each week but with 2 hours of homework each evening and their clubs I don't feel it's fair to expect more from them.

I cook at their house twice a week to ensure they see us all together but it's not enough for them and they still complain they haven't seen us.

I have seen a house big enough to house us all to enable us to care for them whilst having our own space. It would mean them giving the money from their house sale to help fund it.

I have discussed this at length and father in law is on board- however mil is saying that it isn't fair to sibling as they should have half of the house sale. Whilst I appreciate this - we can mortgage partially to cover it. Sibling is quite precious about it and everything has to be "fair" so they wouldn't be happy about it incase we got more than them.

For example in laws wanted to help us buy our first marital home but sibling complained so they had to half the money between us.

DH says they won't do it because sibling would be unhappy etc. To me it's not about money but about quality of my time. Preparing meals, cleaning, gardening etc whilst raising my children and cooking, cleaning in my own house. It they lived with us it would be easier for me and I know that's selfish for me - but DH expects me to pick up the slack as his job is more physically demanding (mine is mentally demanding).

It is affecting the relationship with my own family as my own mother is on her own and has needs but I always have to prioritise in laws so my mum misses out on my time. I still manage her money, do her shopping etc but she then feels guilty asking for help as
She knows I'm stretched.

I don't really know what I want from this thread - time management advice? Tell me to man up and make DH do the care for his parents, suck it up and get on with it?!

If baffled that despite all this MIL's two children happily let their elderly mother cook. She may have wanted to, or see it as her role, but it's time her children started looking beyond this.

Absolutely agree.

why should everything fall to you op? It sounds like you have done so much already and whenever something needs doing everyone looks to you!

They just don't "see" it that she's too old despite looking at how she struggles. I guess I'm far more empathetic.

I always plug the gaps though so I suppose if I stop doing it they'll realise.

OP’s made a good start but there’s quite a way to go towards addressing this fully with DH. This attitude is not just for this one weekend, it’s for good.

DH needs time to take on board the fact OP is will not be an unpaid carer full stop.

Don’t do it. No good can come of it.

Not fair on you, your mum, your children, or your sibling-in-law.

Your ILs can obviously pay for help and they’ve got each other.

Well done you OP. It can be hard standing your ground. Keep it up!

It sounds like really the ILs need to downsize to a more suitable home, get carers in (as they're able to afford it) or consider a care home. Though I appreciate that accepting you're moving to that stage of your life can be quite hard for for anyone . However, you stepping back may help everyone realise it's for the best.

So glad you've given up the buying together idea. My neighbour did it, and whenever I bump into her at the shops, she looks exhausted and tells me it was a mistake and it's straining everyone's relationships.

Also, your sibling in law gives me the rage. Very concerned about fairness when it comes to money, less fussed when it comes to fairness in the amount of work/care done for his parents...

Haven’t RTFT but I even if you divided the money from the sale of the house now between the siblings, it would still be treated as inheritance- you’d be liable for it to be taxed after they both die.

More likely that money would still be considered theirs when they go to a home- a care home costs £83000 a year ( each!) , so if they live a couple of years each that is a big chunk out of any inheritance.

I'm more concerned that both of them clearly see cooking as the woman's job and not something they could possibly do, even for their elderly parents. How much housework does your husband do at home?

Speak to the precocious sibling about sharing the cost of a carer or carehome in the near future.

I wouldn’t entertain this, it’s a disaster waiting to happen. You’d need to look into what would happen if one of them became so incapacitated that they had to go into a nursing home, how would they fund it, would this be classed as deprivation of assets?
Like another poster mentioned your time wouldn’t be your own, they’ll rely on you for everything.
They are demanding enough already, it’ll get worse.
You do enough, too much in my view. They can pay a gardener, pay for a cleaner once a week.

Grabby?? Fuck me! 😳

You’ve clearly fuck all experience of looking after elderly parents and the toll it takes on your health and mental well-being.

There’s nothing remotely fair about one sibling taking on the burden of personal and general care.

Moving them into OP’s home would put a massive stress on all her family, especially the children, but as long as the lazy inconsiderate sibling still gets their 50% of any inheritance, that’s all that matters in your eyes.

I think you need to re-visit your interpretation of GRABBY.

I don't think you're using precocious correctly there.
Not sure why the OPs DH and Dsibling would have to pay for a care home if one required. The ILs apparently have money and a big house they can pay for their own care.

I agree. There is nothing grabby about the OP wanting to be compensated for what could be literally decades of labour and, by the sound of it, exploitation by her PIL and DH.

Working out the cost of non-stop personal care (not allowed unless you are taking advantage of a daughter or DIL as actual employees are entitled to rest breaks and days off but expected of the OP apparently), say 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. At minimum wage £10.42, that’s roughly £46,000 a year.

Of course, bear in mind the OP is being expected to provide skilled labour (most cook/housekeepers get more than minimum wage), that’s probably a massive underestimate.

This is likely to go on for 5-10 years minimum so the OP would be personally (since it looks like her DH and SIL have no plans to provide any of the care) owed £200,000 - £400,000 by her in laws.

If the OP does agree to the PIL moving in and I would strongly, strongly advise against it (and I know she’s pretty much ruled it out), arrangements should be made for that amount to be paid to her each year from the PIL’s savings. If SIL doesn’t like it, SIL can make arrangements to do half the care.

The above doesn’t take into account that the OP is expected to hold down a full time job and contribute to the family finances as well. Working all day and being expected to come home and do a full time second job is likely to lead to health issues in itself.

Lots of people in the replies seem really against multi -generational living just on principle, because it can be complicated. But life can be complicated anyway and it can have lovely benefits too, as long as everyone can be open about challenges and downsides and navigate them together. And are happy to manage the legal side of things openly too. In terms of siblings - things don’t have to be exactly equal to be fair. You can speak with lawyers to work out legal and financial protections that take into account who has invested what and who has paid what going forwards. Including if they need to fund care later - it’s different rules if you share ownership of a home than if they own it outright. (And if you do decide to do it anyway absolutely do this properly so you aren’t screwed over later on)

But, even as someone who actually loves living with family, I don’t think I would want to live with your PiLs as you describe them. They aren’t acting reasonably now, and your DH isn’t taking his share of responsibility. That probably isn’t going to get better if you’re sharing a home with them and you could end up totally trapped.

While this is true, I can see why DS feels any inheritance from her parents should be split 50:50 with DH.

However this does not factor in the fact that ILs will have considerable care costs going forward and someone will have to be paid for care. DS and DH will have to split whatever is left after care.

No-one in this scenario seems to be at all realistic. It’s very odd that as a family they all seem to have decided OP will do the care for free!

Multigenerational living can obviously work well for families and cultures that are set up for it. It was less unusual in the UK too even in recent times, but usually relied on the wife of the household being a SAHP/ housewife having no more than a part time job in terms of responsibility outside the home.

However, in the U.K. we now are in a situation where we are living longer, but not necessarily in better health. All adults in the house expected to work full time if capable. In years gone by, granny might have come to live when she got too frail to live on her own, stayed for a couple of years managing fine with everyone pitching in to help, until a bout of pneumonia or a stroke finished her. These days she is much more likely to survive that pneumonia or stroke, but be frailer and have major increasing needs that simply can’t be met by a family. Throw in complicating factors such as intertwining finances to build a granny annexe, or not being assessed as needing carers because of family under the same roof and it gets horrible very fast.

@ohmyohmy123

I think it’s time everyone seriously considered the option of them selling up and moving into residential accommodation with the option of a care element, if required later on.

My mum looked after my elderly granny whilst trying to hold down a f/t job and I also pitched in occasionally whilst I was studying for my O’levels. Yes, it was that long ago and it was absolutely shit! (Oh and mum’s sister who had never worked a day after getting married, refused to help.)

Thankfully, mum was so desperate not to put that burden onto me, that she was keen to find a good retirement solution and in her early 70’s whilst she was still fit and healthy, she sold her house and bought a 1 bed flat in a little retirement village. She quickly got involved in their activities and made lots of friends and had a lovely time there until she sadly passed away. I met loads of the other residents at her funeral and it was clear that she was very popular.

As a resident, she didn’t have to worry about any maintenance issues and the gardens were always tidy and lovely to walk around.

Yes, it reduces any inheritance you might receive, but to my mind, my mum’s comfort and happiness was the most important factor and she genuinely loved living there. In fact, she said on several occasions that she wished she’d moved there 10 yrs earlier as she had so much more fun company on a daily basis compared to living in her old home with the occasional visitor.

They have a cleaner and a gardener but complain about having to pay people when they have family near by.

Wow, how entitled! "Why pay if there´s a female family member and a few children that will do it for free?" is what I am hearing...

First you raisec your children, you´re caring for your DH´s parents, then you will be caring for your own parents.
This may very well be followed by helping with your future grandchildren.

You´ll be somebody´s carer until you´re old enough to be in need of one for yourself!!

I am incredibly pleased to have seen your updates about taking a step back and acknowledging that you´re burnt out. Good luck! You can do it!

No-one in this scenario seems to be at all realistic. It’s very odd that as a family they all seem to have decided OP will do the care for free!

Is this truly odd?

She´s a woman and they´re related to her (through marriage in this case).
That´s often enough.

Add to that her apparently being in some sort of vaguely adjacent profession (nurse? physical therapist?) and it´s even less of a surprise.

That´s how the distribution of unpaid labour and particularly caregiving has gone for generations.

Sounds really tough on you OP and that the current set up isn’t quite fair.

We have just looked at buying with my parents in anticipation of increased needs as they age (Parkinson’s). The property wasn’t right in the end so we’re not going ahead.

We had similar conversations about inheritance and care costs - a tenants in common agreement can help manage that but needs good legal advice. We also talked about what might be our ground rules, what we each wanted and needed from the set up, where might conflict come etc.

I would go and look at this place, with FIL initially if he’s more on board, and walk through together what it might look like and compare/contrast that to now. It sounds like there will be pros and cons, but not clear how that weighs up. It might also help you surfacing some of the stuff that doesn’t work now.

lots of luck. Xx

Do not do this! We looked at doing similar and it turned to bedlam re other siblings and also I couldn't accept all the extra care responsibilities plus deal with my own small children. We ended up with them in their own much smaller place 3 miles away. It's still a lot in terms of emotional load, but we both still have breathing space and it is easier to ask the siblings to pull their weight.

Walk away. Our neighbour needed extra help she had two sons. One an hour away in Manchester by car who did what he could. One in London who had POA who never visited once in seven years.

Guess who got the house and is here most of the time working remotely

you’re a champ doing this for in laws.

a week demonstration of spending that same amount of time with your family (ya know, to be fair) would go a long way, and be regenerative for you. DH needs to spend that time with your family too.

DH singing is not being ‘fair’ they need to step up more if that’s their expectation.

mad for time savers. Order groceries? Everything except fruit/veggies, you always get the sketchy ones.

husbands sibling can look into paying for a granny nanny. Ya know. To pick up their slack.

anyway. You’re being crazy tolerant! Good luck, don’t burn yourself out. Maybe they need to move to a home, they would get appropriate care, and more friends/interaction/activity

Write down everything you/kids do for them and how long it takes (including travel).
Give list to DH
Tell DH to send it to Sister and sort it out 50/50.
Both will either need to do it themselves or pay someone to do it.
Tell DH you will do 100% of the care for YOUR mum and not expect him to do anything.
Put your coat on and go see YOUR mum.

For the record OP, I had a severely ill MIL who died last year after 10 years of illness. I didn't do a single minute of care. None. When we would visit, I' d stay and chat to her, i always brought her her favourite flowers and sent her a birthday message etc i.e. I was a decent human. But no care was ever expected of me and I wouldn't have done it. DH travelled when he could, and DH and his siblings split the costs of carers. She totally rejected the idea of a carer at first but she just had no choice after a while.

It is not normal for the woman of the family to just do the care for everyone, don't think this is just what is expected and decent. It's not.