Buying a house with in-laws

[ohmyohmy123]

My in-laws are in their 80's - both DH and I work full time and have children, pets etc. we live quite close and try our best to support them. They are now at the point that they need regular care which is difficult as we take turns to visit each evening but they are isolated and lonely and it's hard work to try to leave - they find jobs for us to do or complain we've not been there long enough.

DH sibling lives too far and sees them once a month so it's all on us.

They have a cleaner and a gardener but complain about having to pay people when they have family near by. They expect my children to support with gardening etc (they are 12 & 14 and do lots of extra curricular activities so rarely get time. They do small
Jobs like putting their bins out each week but with 2 hours of homework each evening and their clubs I don't feel it's fair to expect more from them.

I cook at their house twice a week to ensure they see us all together but it's not enough for them and they still complain they haven't seen us.

I have seen a house big enough to house us all to enable us to care for them whilst having our own space. It would mean them giving the money from their house sale to help fund it.

I have discussed this at length and father in law is on board- however mil is saying that it isn't fair to sibling as they should have half of the house sale. Whilst I appreciate this - we can mortgage partially to cover it. Sibling is quite precious about it and everything has to be "fair" so they wouldn't be happy about it incase we got more than them.

For example in laws wanted to help us buy our first marital home but sibling complained so they had to half the money between us.

DH says they won't do it because sibling would be unhappy etc. To me it's not about money but about quality of my time. Preparing meals, cleaning, gardening etc whilst raising my children and cooking, cleaning in my own house. It they lived with us it would be easier for me and I know that's selfish for me - but DH expects me to pick up the slack as his job is more physically demanding (mine is mentally demanding).

It is affecting the relationship with my own family as my own mother is on her own and has needs but I always have to prioritise in laws so my mum misses out on my time. I still manage her money, do her shopping etc but she then feels guilty asking for help as
She knows I'm stretched.

I don't really know what I want from this thread - time management advice? Tell me to man up and make DH do the care for his parents, suck it up and get on with it?!

I can't imagine being so selfish as to refuse to pay for help if I had the money and expect my kids and grandchildren to give up their life to do it for free.

just keep reminding them you’re a busy family and stretched, but luckily they they do have a second child…

And money to pay for their own gardeners, repair men and ready meals.
I do wish everyone would keep banging on about the other sibling. They aren't the problem, DPILs unreasonable expectations are.

God they are quite the handful aren't they. I know they are family and elderly but they do come across as quite entitled and whiney. You've been very generous with your time so far and have some up with a solution, which mil still isn't happy with, ask her what she expects you to do, quit your job or rehome your children?

And money to pay for their own gardeners, repair men and ready meals.
I do wish everyone would keep banging on about the other sibling. They aren't the problem, DPILs unreasonable expectations are.

Absolutely @rookiemere - you make the point I was trying to make but much better!

I’m caring for elderly parents including one who has late stage dementia. But that is my choice. I can do it as I work from home and they moved to live very near me.

My other siblings work FT, Iive around the country, and have younger children. So that would not have been possible.

However, my parents had saved up and had plenty of funds to cover care home fees for both if necessary.

Furthermore, these are OP’s in laws - They’re not even bio family. She has her own parents to worry about.

DH and his sister need to focus their minds that the value of the house sale goes to pay for care fees not to be divided at this point.

Well good for you! But the these are not the OPs parents, and she works, has two young dc, and her OWN mother she doesn’t see enough of - because she’s too busy running herself into the ground for her ungrateful in-laws, at the behest of a lazy husband and his unfair and equally lazy and entitled sibling. Perhaps reread the ops posts for a full picture….

@goody2shooz

If they are due to inherit a few hundred thousand potentially… or even if it’s less than that and she benefits from this wouldn’t that mean some obligation on her part…

Or are she and husband going to be as bad as the sibling who doesn’t want to contribute but receive all the £££.

@hairbrush1234

Even if you pay for help, indeed even if you are in a home full time, you still need someone to do a lot on your behalf.

Paying for care is insufficient.

Did the relatives you cared for require round the clock care? Did they require 2 carers to do personal care 4 times a day? Did they require a hoist? Did they become aggressive with their illness?
How does one deal with this and look after two kids and work full time?
There is a world outside your window. Not every case is simple

@Mirabai

Completely understand your position. Had similar to deal with myself.

Have actually advised Op to avoid moving in with them if possible due to fact that care for them will be reduced massively.

My irritation is with people recommending washing her hands of them entirely. They are elderly and vulnerable.

OP may be being supported financially by DH to enable her to be able to contribute to their care, and she may benefit quite a bit financially in the end when they die.

She hasn’t outlined the full detail, but that for me muddies the waters a bit when it comes to responsibility.

Generally people are only in this highly dependent and demanding state for a short period of time 6m-2y before they end up in a home. If it were likely to be 5,10,20 then that’s more unreasonable…. But these people, from what she describes, are not long off needing 24/7 care beyond her capability even if they were to buy a bigger house (I hope you are recognising and acknowledging that @ohmyohmy123 - by the time you buy the house and move one or both may be needing to move to a home.

@Itloggedmeoutagain

So we had 3 of them to look after at 3 different addresses over a 3 year period. All now deceased. One suddenly. Two took about 18 months until they went into a home from the point it was critical, in and out of hospital during that time. None were violent, one difficult to work with and against help.

They all had calls with 2 carers, 5x a day. All needed help with toileting, washing, one needed help with eating/drinking too. Obviously, even with 5 calls we were doing a lot. Thankfully they all lived within 5mins/in the house with us which made it easier.

We worked it between myself and another relative mainly to care. DH doing some errands. I was on maternity when it started then working full time. We started the day at 6am and finished around 11-12 at night, alternating shifts and sometimes paying for overnight respite.

It’s not easy - hence I have advised OP to try and implement as much help as possible from care services first… which means stepping back. The in-laws will likely need to go into a home shortly by the sounds of it.

Reading from your posts, it sounds like you need to set boundaries that your PIL will have to follow, regarding expectations.

I learnt from my own mother that no amount of time spent helping her, was enough and every tradeperson she had issue with. I spent too much time ignorning my own family to cater for her ever increasing needs.

My DS became very ill and my mother unfortuantley has become low in priorities and amazingly shes doing well. I've set up strong boundaries and am alot happier.

I am a dispute resolution lawyer and I have dealt with a number of cases where arrangements like this have gone wrong. Buying a property jointly with other family members can work but only if everyone is clear about what they expect from the arrangement, who puts what in, who pays for what, who does what jobs, and how either of you might get out if it doesn't work out. You need to have those sort of conversations before you start, and ideally draw up an agreement. Those people who naively think 'we can work it out once we are all living together' or who don't think about it at all are the ones who are more likely to encounter problems, as the parties may be going into it with different, conflicting expectations. You also need to take legal and tax advice as part of the setting-up process.

Reading your post, it sounds as if you are thinking of doing this in order to appease demanding inlaws. Are they really going to be any less demanding if you all live together? And once you have all sold up and bought together, what do you do if they are still as demanding? This needs some clear thinking and frank conversations. Then you will get a better feel for whether you should do it or not.

Do not even entertain the idea. You are already doing way too much and will be at their beck and call 24/7. Why do some older people resent paying for help and would rather make their working adult children have as exhausting life as possible looking after them?

As for expecting your 12 and 14 year old to do jobs for them, how entitled are they?!! Its one thing kids helping out grandparents with a few small things when you are visiting (maybe laying the table or fetching something for them), but actually thinking they should be doing jobs on top of school, homework, clubs and their childhood fun. Your kids should be your number one priority, especially in the crucial teenage years they are beginning.

Get them to order some good quality ready meals so you are not cooking for them. Everyone helps relatives out occasionally with a few small jobs but they need to pay for carers/cleaner/gardener if they need regular help.

Definately do not move in with them.

I think it is great if people can help care for their loved ones - but only within what they are able to physically and mentally do without destroying their own family/private lives and wellbeing.

Heartbreaking thread on here recently by a lady who gave up a much loved job and life in London to move to her home town and care for her parents. Now that they are deceased/in a home she is wrung out and devastated at losing the fantastic life that she loved. I wouldn't want my child to do that for me.

When you are a parent your children should be your priority whatever help your parents or inlaws need. The children shouldn't have to not attend activities or go on holiday or miss too much time with their mum because of elderly care. I'll help my parents and inlaws but not to the detriment of my children. When my kids are grown their own children/their own health and mental health should be their first priority then if they have capacity to help others great.

Fortunately I have lovely parents and inlaws that despite their own health limitations do what they can to help and the help is now reciprocal. No one has the right to say "I don't want a carer/cleaner/garderner/taxi - you must do it".

Even those who aren't DPs should prioritise their own life.

I have a lovely friend who moved back from London because her DPs needed support. Since lockdown has ended I think I've seen her maybe twice as every weekend and holiday she is up looking after her DPs and has sacrificed social life and holidays for a number of years now. I can't help thinking her DPs should be encouraging her to live her own life occasionally, but unfortunately some elderly become quite narrowly focused on their own needs.

You and your husband need to talk to his parents and your mum about the care they really need. You then, between you, but without the parents need to look at what else you are doing (like caring for your kids, working etc) and make up a plan of what of that care you can give. At that point you need to plan with the parents how their total care will be provided and where.

Don't do it. Apart from the stress this will put on you, consider what might happen if they need care and have spent all their money. The local authority will be very interested in their share of the property and that could cause problems for you.

So what if they are ‘due’ to inherit x thousand quid? That £ may well be eaten up with care costs further down the line, and as is often pointed out, her delightful in-laws may leave it all to the dogs’ home or other sibling should they wish. The point is, the op is knocking herself out at the expense of her own mother (who lives alone), her children and her own physical and mental health. She shouldn’t set herself on fire to keep her inlaws warm….especially not these demanding ones! Let her husband and his sibling step up and look after their OWN parents - then they can earn that inheritance with a clear conscience. If there even is one.

@Winter2020

That is all lovely and idealistic.

And of course paid help should be part of the care plan for an elderly relative, but it is about 25% of the workload.

Unfortunately, one day, you will know the reality of helping your parents and in-laws.

Sometimes you have to just get on with it, survive several nights without sleep and deal with the kids missing whatever important activity here and there…. Because you are needed at a hospital bedside or to scrape your relative off the floor.

There are of course people who wash their hands, take off to their marvellous lives, leaving someone else to clean up the mess, until they waft in with an outstretched hand for money after the funeral.

It is my opinion that there is a special place in hell reserved for them.

@goody2shooz her mother is 2 decades younger and is not in need of help.

If it were me I would, with DH, say that gardening, cleaning and diy are off limits, and offer to take over the organisation of gardener, cleaner etc for them provided they pay (because this may be where the difficulty is). I would get social services in and organise a care plan, including meals on wheels and some calls for company. And I would continue to do 1-2 family meals with them and the whole family every week because that does sound a decent and loving thing to do.

But it’s up to OP

Another one saying do not buy a house together. It's a legal minefield if there are siblings and everyone ends up falling out. Honestly it's not worth it. As for an unwritten agreement that family will care for PIL so he doesnt have to go into a home, sadly people just dont know what they will be like when frail. If he needs nursing care a home can be the best (least worst) option. You just dont know.

My FIL is caring for my bedbound MIL. If FIL dies MIL will be in a care home. Their home would be sold to pay for it. Each of her children have jobs/mortgages and families - no one in the family is in a position to offer her 24 hour care, not even to cobble it together between them. I also would not blame any child with no commitments to not do this it sounds like a fast track to a mental breakdown.