Children with ASD / ADHD going to mainstream school.

[BabbaJoe]

What has been your experience of your ‘High-Functioning’ ASD / ADHD child going to mainstream secondary school? My DS is in Year 5 and very academically able. He is happy at his mainstream primary, but frankly he is hopeless socially. They struggle with social cues, have no friends, and act very silly and immature. Whilst he is accepted by his peers, he has no friends, and has been called weird / freak in the past 😔

We have been told that he will not qualify for an EHCP as he is very intelligent and ahead academically, and there are no real reasons to warrant it as he is quite happy at school.

My real concern is secondary school, as that’s when I hear time and time again that ASD / ADHD kids fall apart.

I have three options:

• Mainstream Secondary
• Private School
• Private School that specialises in students with high-functioning ASD.

We can afford the private options, but it will mean cutting back and financial sacrifices.

Those who have been in my position, what would you do, and how did your children cope in mainstream?

I've taught children who are academically ahead or on track with ECHPs for all sorts of reasons. If he is really struggling socially and likely to need a supportive transition to secondary school, I would apply.

Unfortunately it is my experience as a secondary teacher that things will be "fine" in primary (and I would argue having no friends is not fine) but fall apart with the higher demands of secondary. An echp does give you the advantage of naming a state school eg a smaller school where he may be less overwhelmed or one with an autism hub on site, whereas without it you may have to go to your closest school.

I would say not all state schools are the same in terms of support and how overwhelming students find them. I now teach in a very large school with a sixth form, which I do think is unfortunately just too big for some students with additional needs. I've previously taught in a much smaller more nurturing school which seemed to suit more students with ASD. I would look around all your local options and speak to the SENCos this year if you can.

A specialist private school may be better. He may cope better with mainstream post 16.

Once my dd got to a large school
in year 9, her whole world opened up. There were finally enough ASD kids to be able to find one another and to form friendship bonds not just based on having ASD but on actually having things in common. It helps if the school has recreational clubs, not just sport. DD’s school has a gay-straight alliance club and this is a big draw for ASD kids. The art club and robotics club also have high numbers of members with ND.

Honestly it's been completely fine, better than primary even. He loves the structure (it's strict but not too strict so actually very calm), the choice of subjects and extra curricular activities (huge school) and has definitely found his crowd. There are definitely autistic kids for whom the school (or in some cases school in general) does not work but also many for whom it does.

Our experience has been that mainstream was wholly unsuitable despite their academic abilities. They have since crashed out of education due to overwhelm. It's now been such a long battle to get funding for an alternative provision that their mental health has deteriorated to crisis levels and we cannot get them to to even consider returning to education.
My advice would be to whatever you need to do to get them into the right education setting for secondary and apply for an EHCP yourselves.

Disasterous

A possible fourth option- do years 7&8 in a smallish and relatively chilled private prep- gives him a bit longer to mature, tend to be smaller, more supportive around behaviour and particularly around organisation skills. Ds is year 7 and has a couple of boys with high functioning ASD/ADHD in his class - one is out of the park intelligent. He gets on fine. He’s quirky but well liked. The other boy is a bit trickier as he’s quite “bouncy” and not a great respected of personal space but he’s still at a lot of parties so people like him well enough despite regular spats.

I'm applying for an EHCP even though my dd is academically ok. Socially and emotionally she isn't.

It really depends on the mainstream school
and how much experience they have of pupils with autism.

I know autistic children who have survived secondary.

I would take the 3rd option every day of the week. There are no prizes for surviving mainstream, and so much validation and self esteem from growing up in an environment where people really get you and give you grace when you need it.

Yes you can absolutely get an EHCP for children who are ahead academically. I am not sure we would have been successful in Y5 when DS was still coping relatively well, but I regret not trying. The wheels had fallen off very badly by Y8 and there was a lot of trauma.

Mainstream state secondary for my son. The first 2.5 years were a little rocky but this particular school attracts a lot of neurospicy kids due to various things (area, different rules, school being particularly SEN-friendly). He found his people and is thriving, predicted high grades and far happier than in primary. No ADHD just autism.

Second child, ADHD only, really not doing well in another state secondary, no SENCO engagement so very different experience.

I really wish there were more shades of grey with schools. The choice shouldn't be "special school" or "mainstream where you must conform or suffer" - I got lucky with my autistic son but things feel like they're getting worse for younger years. I think you should look hard at the ND-friendly private school and I don't say that lightly because I dislike the two-tier system of private vs state, but right now it's bloody hard for ND kids in the system (and non-ND!).

‘High functioning’ kid with ASC mum here: not diagnosed until 14 although under discussion from 7. Our experience of mainstream secondary was tough at times but ultimately positive: infinitely better than primary. What made a difference was:

• access to some specialist support in the form of an amazing art therapy group (due to anxiety) who really helped understand him as an individual; helped him understand himself and helped school therefore acknowledge the support and diagnosis he needed.
• getting in with a great gang who were about 50% ND - and therefore were largely more supportive and held a sort of shared space (The D&D gang at school!)
• having a member of school staff volunteer to join me on an 8 week autism training course one morning a week. She became his advocate at school and really thought through how to support him to access school and out loads in place for other autistic kids. And it felt like he had someone in his corner at school which was just lovely
• a school with relatively high behaviour standards and clear and consistently applied rules which were much easier than the slightly charming chaos of primary.

He's at uni now and support there has been excellent too.

not going to lie there was a lot of luck involved, and y 7/8 were tough. But I think the key thing is to talk to your specific school and understand their wellbeing and support overall and their openness. And check out whether the school has clubs that support your kids likely special interest (board games/lego/coding etc were his space and a pretty easy/classic ASC boy space I would suggest….

Specialist private school if you possibly can.

It is hard to predict (obviously) but I’ve known so many autistic kids who developed serious mental health issues trying to cope in mainstream secondaries. The environment and demands are much harder for them plus you have all the hormones/usual teenage crap going on.

I would apply for an EHCP - the private specialist school accepts children with EHCPs and without. However, I just don’t see how he would get one. He’s academically ahead, happy and doesn’t really need support at school. He might occasionally need a break or the TA to remind him to focus, but it’s not unmanageable (or even close to) for the class teacher. I’m not sure what grounds I’d be getting an EHCP on - worries for the future? Poor social skills that currently don’t affect him too much in a school setting?

"having a member of school staff volunteer to join me on an 8 week autism training course one morning a week. She became his advocate at school and really thought through how to support him to access school and out loads in place for other autistic kids. And it felt like he had someone in his corner at school which was just lovely"

That's amazing - what a wonderful member of staff.

You could ask school to do a Boxall profile for him (assessment of his social and emotional needs) and if it highlights anything, go from there?

@Fruitystones it's not necessarily a case of the school not helping with an EHCP - if there are no areas that a child requires additional support in a primary school, what can we write? I have a child with a similar profile in my school at the moment. Parents are understandably concerned about how a move to secondary school will go, but if a child is academically able, has a peer group, no evident physical, sensory, emotional or communication needs, anything I write as school evidence towards a parental application is shafting them as it is overwhelmingly positive. I would love to write some applications as I KNOW the wheels will fall off in a couple of years, but I cannot lie, do not have evidence of a current need and am not allowed to base an application on supposition.
OP, whatever you decide, speak to the SENCO, make sure your child gets the right support if they need it as soon as they do and keep a watchful eye on your DC's progress in all areas. If you suspect things aren't going well, insist the school makes reasonable adjustments and documents all meetings and interventions. I would add that private schools have so little in terms of SEN support available in many cases and if support is required, they don't have resources available to draw upon, especially if a child is academically flourishing. Visit lots of schools and get a sense of their SENCO and all the pastoral support they offer.

My son is going to an specialist independent funded by his EHCP for high school.

He’s just about held it together in primary school - he’s academically very able but that’s irrelevant when he’s so dysregulated he can’t access the curriculum. Primary have done a lot to support him but agree a specialist senior is the right setting even though to an untrained eye he’d be fine in mainstream.

If you really don’t think he’ll get an EHCP I’d probably opt for an independent that suits children with ASD.

ADHD ASD teen here.

I have found a small private school, small class sizes with great SEN support the best. She is flourishing.

But then my DD was always overly exhausted at the state primary due to class sizes, noise etc

Depends on how the state secondary are in terms of supporting SEND children. I was concerned about my DS with ASD but he has thrived. Academically he is doing well. He likes the structure of the different classes and has maintained his primary school friends and added a few more. He did know children from other local primaries through his extra curricular activities which helped and we did alot of work on social stories as well as allowing him some access to social media/ tiktok so we could talk through appropriate and inappropriate content, slang, sarcasm etc.

My ds has a strong self of self and isn't drawn in by peer pressure which has helped I think as he will opt out and stay true to his values.

Personally I would visit all the schools to get a feel and go with your gut

My son isn’t doing badly at the mainstream primary. His academic work is great. He’s happy, doesn’t have friends, but he’s not really bothered about that at the moment. The other kids are nice enough to him, but then they are all only 9 or 10. He is just very quirky, and I can see him being torn apart and bullied in a mainstream secondary.

My child is at one of the top london schools specialising in asd without learning difficulties. I would get comfortable with the academic side of things before considering, our experience is that even where they are following a mainstream curriculum the academic expectations are waaaaay low.

That said the social side of things is marvellous and my child is happy and thriving, having also been ostracised and called a freak in mainstream.

I wonder if you could support his friendships outside of school? We joined loads of groups whilst he was in mainstream for kids with autism and just met as many families as we could. He managed to hit it off with a few kids that way with similar interests and that was really transformative so even if school sucked he had mates outside.

I do wonder that if you found the right nurturing private mainstream who would be open to working with your son to help him scaffold his friendships that might work.

So we didn’t know my DD had high functioning autism or inattentive adhd when she started secondary and I will say it’s been hard work at times. But overall she is doing well.

im of the view that if you have a decent secondary state mainstream school then give it a try ( ours is brand new and ofstead outstanding) but link in directly with the SENCO and the pastoral team and get everything you can in place. Then keep reviewing constantly.

our school is very strict, very clear designed rules and time table, clear rewards system and clear behavioural management system. You ALWAYS know where you stand which I think is very helpful to her.

best of luck

just seen your most recent update so edited to add, our school isn’t huge, she doesn’t have many friends but she does lunchtime club activities and has lots of staff support when needed. There is always something going on, you can go to the library or the computer room and there is always staff there so are safe places.

She really was. She was considering retraining as a senco and actually decided not to, but honestly she transformed things for him in such little practical ways, and now works in the school managing exams and has made such a difference in terms of provisions fto manage making exams easier and more accessible. We were so lucky.

My DS isn’t autistic but has ADHD. He went to mainstream and didn’t fare well at all! He couldn’t access any extra help as he’s very bright.He started school refusing in year 8 and after Covid I couldn’t get him
back at all. He didn’t sit any GCSE’s and we’re still trying to figure out a way forward.

My ds has done amazing in our local state. It is a large school (300 intake) but offers the right support. He has one great friend, but like at primary school runs along with everyone else. He went knowing noone, COVID struck first year, but he got through.

GCSES this year, then planning A levels in September, notably maths and further maths.

I'm glad he didn't go to the neighbouring school though, that probably wouldn't have been so positive.

This is just a bog standard comp, an absolute mix of pupils and an amazing headteacher.