I thought I was pro-choice, is this judgey?

[Calmondeck]

I always thought I was pro-choice. I know the difficulties that can come with pregnancy, I understand the complexities of becoming a parent. And yet I suddenly find myself frustrated at a woman I know for choosing not to follow-through with her pregnancy. Does that mean deep down I am not pro-choice?

In a nutshell, I am friends with the male partner in a couple together for 1.5yrs. They’ve been having sex without contraception but avoiding her fertile window. Several weeks ago, had sex in the fertile window, discussed whether or not to use the morning after pill, (apparently) mutual decision not to. Now early days pregnant. The woman reached out to me asking to meet for a chat “on all things birth and motherhood”. I told her I’m probably not the best person to speak to since my review of motherhood is somewhat clouded by spending half of my toddler’s life in hospital as he undergoes aggressive chemotherapy for infant cancer.

We met anyway. The first thing she said was “I’m getting cold feet, we decided to throw caution to the wind, I’m 35 so thought it’s unlikely the first time ever I have sex in a fertile window I would get pregnant, but now that I am, I was excited, and now I’m suddenly scared. I follow all of the midwives on Instagram even though I wasn’t actively planning to become pregnant, I just think becoming a mother is fascinating”.

I was sympathetic and honest about all of the pros and cons from my tiny experience.

My friend, the dad-to-be, is shocked but genuinely excited.

The pregnant woman has decided today that she will get an abortion. And suddenly I feel deeply sad for this growing little person. And frustrated that the mum said “I had my year and travels planned. I’ll try again in 2 years”.

They were incredibly irresponsible. Abortion shouldn’t be for situations like this- it wasn’t an accident. Ultimately I’m still pro-choice but this could easily have been avoided by not having unprotected sex until they were sure they definitely wanted a baby.

I had my year and travels planned. I’ll try again in 2 years
Usually, this means "in two years I'll say that I'll try again in another two years" at least, this is what all my friends have been saying for 5 or so years. I think YANBU to judge even if you think traditionally you have been pro-choice. It's not like your judgement can do anything to her decision anyway. How does your friend feel after being excited to be a dad?

Great. I didn't ask you to not reply to me or imply you shouldn't. I don't have an issue with whatever you say to me. I will, however, continue to clarify my posts if you are questioning them – which is also allowed. You will note that I am not questioning yours.

Totally insensitive to your situation

Well in this situation I'm not conflicted at all. I do think some women who have repeated abortions due to careless birth control practises need their heads knocked together.
One family, staunch Catholics, really did have the courage of their convictions and even though I didn't agree I had to respect it. They were the kind to lock themselves to the gates of abortion clinics. All well when it's not you grappling with the decision you might think, but their learning disabled daughter was raped in her sheltered home and they said if she was to get pregnant they would raise the child. And they did, with as much love as they gave to their other nine kids.

I think you can be pro choice but still be sad about the choices some people make. Or the choices we sometimes make ourselves. The point is that women have to be free to make the choice.

You respect someone who made their disabled child give birth after being raped?

You can be pro choice and still have your own opinions on people and their lives.

Would you like to remove her option to have an abortion and make her continue with a pregnancy /baby she does not want?

No, I'm sure you don't want that.

So you are pro choice. You're just human and have your own private opinions, but you won't let it interfere with someone's right to choose for themselves and their body.

I mean, this has ZERO to do with you. I would completely ignore any feelings you have about it.

Okay, so what is the point of this advice? If she was able to just ignore her feelings she wouldn't be here seeking advice, this issue has (not unsurprisingly given her circumstances) affected her to a certain extent.

To me the incredible thing here is that you find this worthy of ‘respect’.

That pretty much what I think.

And I also think that few of us are truly fully pro-choice - we all have lines.

Would most pro-choice supporters think the day before birth was ok? The hour before birth? If not then you've got a line to draw somewhere where you're saying at that point but no further am I pro-choice. At some point you think that something (the age or viability of the baby) means the woman's automomy over her body is no longer the over-riding principle.

And if that's the case why is it only time, the length of pregnancy, that gives you a line? That makes no philosophical sense.

Having said that my own illogical view is that up to the baby being viable then women should have the right to chose for whatever reason. I don't like it, especially for trivial reasons like the ones OP mentions, but I support it.

You are not pro-choice.
They should not have asked you at all.
I am really sorry about your toddler.

To be pro choice, you don't have to agree with the reasons, only the right.

Although given the fact this woman has come to @Calmondeck to discuss this and has made the comments she has, I wouldn't be surprised if this is needless drama and when the time comes she'll say "I just couldn't go through with it."

The point is that this is what I would tell myself if I found myself in this position. And I have found myself in similar positions. Actively deciding to take steps in moving on from them helped me. You aren't required to agree, nor is the OP, so I'm not sure why it bothers you.

They shouldn't really have discussed it with anyone, just gone and done whatever they wanted ie keep or abort.

Does she know about your wee one?
I wouldn't judge her so much for the abortion. But I would judge her to hell and back for using you as her abortion sounding board.
Completely inappropriate and lacking in awareness.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through

You don't get to feel the progressive smugness of being pro choice and then be "pro-choice only actually only in circumstances I on my moral high horse deem appropriate"

You're either pro choice or you're not.

You're not.

Being tolerant of other people's religions doesn't mean you literally believe in their gods.

I'd defend any woman's right to a legal abortion, to freedom of speech, to freedom of religion and lots of other freedoms. I don't think any of those things should be made illegal. I don't think marital infidelity should be illegal (as it is in some fascist regimes). I think you should be able to criticise the King (unlike in, say, Thailand).

It doesn't mean that I personally would do any or all of those things. I might do some of them, under some circumstances. But I'd defend your right to choose to do any of them without legal consequences.

That, to me, is pro-choice.

Anyone who thinks pro-choice means unequivocally applauding all instances of abortion, is thinking too simplistically.

Thank you for explaining, maybe it's the bluntness of it that bothered me.

It's the same as someone having an issue and then being impatiently told, 'just get over it'. I think too often on forums like this, things are flippantly said and I'm about 99% sure that if someone you knew came to you with an issue like this, your response would not be as blunt and unhelpful as it was in your post, just because someone is a stranger on the internet shouldn't matter IMO.

It does bother me sometimes on here, a little empathy and understanding goes a long way, but I realise that is probably too much to ask for on an anonymous forum.

Progressive smugness of being pro-choice? What are you on about?

Well put.

yes you're being judgey. This has literally nothing to do with you and no impact on you. If she'd taken the MAP the baby would have died then instead. No difference, it's just a ball of cells!

YANBU

That's not how MAPs work. It is a preventative measure, which is why it works best asap after unprotected sex. They work by either delaying, or preventing ovulation.

I got pregnant with my DD at 22 in the middle of a mental health crisis. I didn't get pregnant completely intentionally but I did (stupidly) think it might save my relationship.

I'm pro-choice and had my abortion booked but decided I couldn't go through with it because I'd kind of gotten pregnant on purpose. She's the best thing that ever happened to me btw. I guess I'd have judged myself for punishing a baby who had no choice, when I made stupid ones. Every situation is unique I suppose.

If I got pregnant now at 48, I'm pretty confident I'd exercise my right to choose and abort. I'm using contraception (and a fair bit of abstinence) so would feel it was a genuine accident now.