I thought I was pro-choice, is this judgey?

[Calmondeck]

I always thought I was pro-choice. I know the difficulties that can come with pregnancy, I understand the complexities of becoming a parent. And yet I suddenly find myself frustrated at a woman I know for choosing not to follow-through with her pregnancy. Does that mean deep down I am not pro-choice?

In a nutshell, I am friends with the male partner in a couple together for 1.5yrs. They’ve been having sex without contraception but avoiding her fertile window. Several weeks ago, had sex in the fertile window, discussed whether or not to use the morning after pill, (apparently) mutual decision not to. Now early days pregnant. The woman reached out to me asking to meet for a chat “on all things birth and motherhood”. I told her I’m probably not the best person to speak to since my review of motherhood is somewhat clouded by spending half of my toddler’s life in hospital as he undergoes aggressive chemotherapy for infant cancer.

We met anyway. The first thing she said was “I’m getting cold feet, we decided to throw caution to the wind, I’m 35 so thought it’s unlikely the first time ever I have sex in a fertile window I would get pregnant, but now that I am, I was excited, and now I’m suddenly scared. I follow all of the midwives on Instagram even though I wasn’t actively planning to become pregnant, I just think becoming a mother is fascinating”.

I was sympathetic and honest about all of the pros and cons from my tiny experience.

My friend, the dad-to-be, is shocked but genuinely excited.

The pregnant woman has decided today that she will get an abortion. And suddenly I feel deeply sad for this growing little person. And frustrated that the mum said “I had my year and travels planned. I’ll try again in 2 years”.

How old is she? Try again in a couple of years, it may not happen quite so easily. If they actually want a child this may be their chance, no knowing what may happen in the next two years.

That’s a straw man argument. The “solutions” to eradicate murder are already addressed because to murder a born person/foetus past 24 weeks gestation is illegal. Policy and public spend exist and are allocated to that. Your stance of being “anti-murder” does not require an overall of policy, public finances or facility use.

So with no solution or even opinion on how the excess of children to be managed would happen, it is a poor political stance.

Those people are not pro life. They're pro birth. They don't care what happens to the babies after they're born and do absolutely nothing to help afterwards.

Until they involved you the way they did!

And maybe she won’t want a child at another point in the future. So what if she does or doesn’t? If you do not want a child NOW, that’s the only relevant question the woman is recruited to answer.

Pro choice is still pro choice regardless of who they involve.

It sounds like this woman made a mistake in thinking she might be ready. She clearly isn't and therefore should not be forced into continuing a pregnancy and birthing a child she doesn't want.
Raising a wanted baby is tough without adding in resentment or regret.

In an ideal world, those who want babies can have babies easily and those who don't never have to. I say this as someone who would desperately like another baby and can't. I do not resent any woman who makes the right choice for her. It's just shit that she's in that position in the first place.

What?

I'd judge.

It is my understanding that an abortion in this particular circumstance would arguably be illegal in England and Wales. (I'm assuming your friends are in England and Wales?) I also believe it would be immoral. The changes to abortion law in the late sixties were never intended to be create a green light to abortion on demand.

I'm saying this as someone who supported a depressed friend with an abusive partner through an abortion - and would do similar again.

Hope your little one makes a full recovery.

Well yes.

But believe me, when a woman who has had an abortion later finds they are unable to conceive when they desperately want to - the memory of what happened before can be very painful indeed.

We do however have what amounts to abortion on demand. There was a case a few years ago where the doctors at a local hospital left pre signed abortion authorisation forms at the reception so the didn't have to be bothered. Anyone who wanted an abortion simply filled in their details and that was that. I think they were reprimanded by the bma for failing to follow procedures.

I don't know if the regulations have been slackened but I doubt anyone would follow the original guidelines these days.

Sounds like you’d fit in well with some US states who make antiquated laws following the overturning of Roe v Wade.
Abortion is not wrong - a woman has the rights over her body.

Recruited? I meant ‘required’, lol.

Some women may feel that way, but not all women do. Hindsight is 20:20, isn’t it? If you gave these women wishing to have a termination the foresight that still doesn’t mean they’d necessarily decline having one.

What? No, it’s not arguably illegal. It is legal.

I suppose so. But not everyone is great at exercising tact and empathy and you can’t walk through life getting upset about other people’s decisions and mindsets when they made those decisions. People will always make choices you disagree with/say things you disagree with and I think abortion is definitely one of those subjects.

Just want to make clear I judge BOTH parties in this sort of situation, not just the woman.

Couples should only be this casual about contraception if they are both on board with the possibility of pregnancy.

I'd judge her.

No contraception is 100% and many sensible people are occasionally careless - it happens.

Oh definitely. But only for reasons like cost and health risks, not morality.

Abortion remains technically illegal in England and Wales, unless particular requirements are met.

I definitely think BigFatLiar is right though - we effectively have abortion on demand in practice.

It’s totally legal up to 24 weeks and after that in certain circumstances.

I'm sure it is, but it's still her choice to make, and doesn't necessarily mean she was wrong to make that choice in a different time and situation.

You can support a right without approving of how someone chooses to exercise that right.

For instance, I support people's right to drive but I still disapprove of people who drive dangerously. I support the existence of a social safety net without approving of people who abuse that safety net. I support freedom of speech but I don't have to approve of everything everybody says.

I am comfortable with the UK's current stance regarding abortion and I don't think people who don't want kids should be pressured or forced to have them. But it still grinds my gears when situations like this come about. "Yeah, so we were adamant we didn't want kids, at all, ever, but we figured we'd use a less reliable form of contraception at the riskiest possible time, then made the conscious decision not to go to a pharmacy for 72 hours to get the morning after pill. Then it turned out I was pregnant - crazy, right? - so I aborted lol." There was absolutely no need for a human life to be involved in this situation at all.

Accidents and tragedies happen, and circumstances do change. But safe, legal and rare should be the goal as far as I am concerned, and that means appreciating the potential consequences of unsafe sex and the gravity of the decision to abort. Responsible use of contraception should always be the first port of call, and abortion should not be treated as a form of contraception. Frankly, the more flippantly the foetus's life is treated by the pro-choice movement, the more resistance the movement will encounter.

Do I think abortion should be legal and accessible? Yes, within reasonable parameters. Do I think your friend should have that right taken away because I don't like how she used it in this instance? No. But does her reckless disregard for a human life piss me off? Yes.

For instance, I support people's right to drive but I still disapprove of people who drive dangerously. I support the existence of a social safety net without approving of people who abuse that safety net. I support freedom of speech but I don't have to approve of everything everybody says.

But all the examples above effect you directly and materially – a dangerous driver can endanger your life, social safety nets directly benefit you, and freedom of speech underpins your human rights and allows you to hold those in power to account. A woman choosing to have an abortion affects you materially in no way.

I just feel that personally it goes both ways. I don’t particularly agree with it so I don’t talk about it and if I’m cornered on the subject I try to remain neutral and sensitive and I feel that it’s not always reciprocated I’ve had one particular person I knew saying such inflammatory and awful things way beyond what was necessary (a simple ‘I’ve had a termination and I feel no regret’ would really have been enough not the detail or the clear hatred for the embryo) it was just really in poor taste - yes it’s legal, yes it’s a choice but like I don’t go around saying why I do r agree to those who do I do expect in return sensitivity and not least for people like me but those who have suffered losses there just needs to be some more sensitivity sometimes and an acknowledgement that it is a big deal for some and you just don’t know who certain words will affect and to be mindful