I thought I was pro-choice, is this judgey?

[Calmondeck]

I always thought I was pro-choice. I know the difficulties that can come with pregnancy, I understand the complexities of becoming a parent. And yet I suddenly find myself frustrated at a woman I know for choosing not to follow-through with her pregnancy. Does that mean deep down I am not pro-choice?

In a nutshell, I am friends with the male partner in a couple together for 1.5yrs. They’ve been having sex without contraception but avoiding her fertile window. Several weeks ago, had sex in the fertile window, discussed whether or not to use the morning after pill, (apparently) mutual decision not to. Now early days pregnant. The woman reached out to me asking to meet for a chat “on all things birth and motherhood”. I told her I’m probably not the best person to speak to since my review of motherhood is somewhat clouded by spending half of my toddler’s life in hospital as he undergoes aggressive chemotherapy for infant cancer.

We met anyway. The first thing she said was “I’m getting cold feet, we decided to throw caution to the wind, I’m 35 so thought it’s unlikely the first time ever I have sex in a fertile window I would get pregnant, but now that I am, I was excited, and now I’m suddenly scared. I follow all of the midwives on Instagram even though I wasn’t actively planning to become pregnant, I just think becoming a mother is fascinating”.

I was sympathetic and honest about all of the pros and cons from my tiny experience.

My friend, the dad-to-be, is shocked but genuinely excited.

The pregnant woman has decided today that she will get an abortion. And suddenly I feel deeply sad for this growing little person. And frustrated that the mum said “I had my year and travels planned. I’ll try again in 2 years”.

NO, totally disagree. Choice is for when things go wrong despite being responsible, not for those who want to 'play russian roulette' with pregnancy.

If you work in health care, you will know of so many women who refuse all contraceptive advice, and have abortion after abortion. And, call me judgy I don't care, this is so so WRONG.

To some it is nothing, to you its not.

Thats ok - pro choice is choice for EVERY woman

Don't want an abortion, thats fine.
Do want an abortion, thats fine.

If you agree that she should be allowed an abortion for the reasons she has stated then you're still pro choice.

You're allowed to have your feelings about reasons or whatever but as long as you don't wish to restrict her access to abortion that's fine.

FWIW I think her reasons are valid, she doesn't feel ready now and that's OK.

I hope your little one recovers quickly 💐

I agree, it's very insensitive.

Being pro-choice does not mean inwardly approving every decision to terminate.

It does mean that you put no obstacles in the way of someone seeking an abortion (supporting provision) and you absolutely respect the right of the individual to choose.

You are allowed to think that someone's choices are wrong (whether abortion or anything else) and it depends entirely on the nature of the the relationship between you and the person whether you mention your misgivings at all. It's easy to voice them with a sister you are close to and who will know you are speaking from a position of love and support (and that whatever misgivings you express now, you'd always support her actual decision) and a remote friend where you'd avoid the subject; and then that whole messy bit in the middle where you're worried about how far you go and whether it would be taken the right way

My mother is now elderly, and was a doctor before abortion was legal and she saw, first hand, the harm that desperate women would do to themselves. Personally, she has moral objections to abortion, but she was and is a complete supporter of proper provision of abortion services. Because she is pro-choice. Which means for her that she respects the rights of other individuals to have different views on morals and to be able to live their lives accordingly.

Lots of women get cold feet when they are actually pregnant and the enormity hits them. There is also such a thing as pre-natal anxiety. This is why women keep abortion secret, for fear of being judged. But it sounds like you are the wrong person for her to have confided in for various personal reasons of your own.

It seems an odd decision, but it is her body and her choice to make, whatever her reason.

No, idiots and the irresponsible also get a choice.

I feel the same, also know someone who uses abortion as a form of contraception. Luckily her husband had now had the snip so she has to use contraception since she if she gets pregnant now it’ll become very clear to him that she cheats on him constantly!

If you don’t want a baby, use contraception.

Yes, far better to force them to give birth....

If you work in health care you'll know that the absolutely tiny proportion of women who do this tend to have deep, complex trauma and mental health issues. They don't do it for funsies.

It makes no difference to the foetus what the woman's reasons are.

The stance that abortion is wrong unless the woman has a reason I deem acceptable, it makes no sense.

You feel 'deeply sad for this growing little person' because you've decided the mother is selfish or flakey, but if you liked the mother and thought she was a saint in genuine need, you wouldn't give a fuck about the little person?

So actually it's not about the foetus at all, it's purely about judging women.

Reading your description of events I find myself judging her lifestyle choices, morals and approaches to safe sex rather than judging her pregnancy choice, so I wonder if you are actually doing the same. As someone upthread says, you can be pro-choice without liking with the choice.
I'm sorry you've had such an awful time with your little boy's health, I hope he recovers soon 🩵

100% this.
I support that women get choices but this doesn't mean I agree with their choices. However, I wouldn't speak up about it necessarily if that's what they had decided. I would try to present a balanced discussion without saying I don't agree.

She has been daft and flaky in her attitude to contraception but having a baby should never be a ‘punishment’ for that.

She has made the decision that is right for her, now. And in the end, babies should be 100% wanted.

Really sorry that your child is so ill, and it’s understandable if this might have heightened your emotional response to perceived carelessness around life.

Some people are idiots but I’ll still be pro choice. It’s not for anyone else to judge anyone’s decisions about their body.

Mmmm, as you're friends with the boyfriend and you opened up to her I can see why you have some judgment towards her. She seems pretty cavalier.

But ultimately she sounds very conflicted and a bit all over the place so maybe her decision is for the best.

So people who are irresponsible and you really dislike are the ones you want to be forced to become mothers
Most people would say the opposite? That irresponsible, selfish people who make bad decisions don't make good mothers?

Well, do you think she shouldn't be allowed to terminate her pregnancy? If so, then you aren't pro-choice.

If you think she should be allowed to terminate her pregnancy regardless of whether you personally think it's the right thing to do, then you are still pro-choice.

Pro-choice, to me, means believing abortion should be legal and available. That pregnant women shouldn't be prevented from having one.

That's not the same as whole heartedly approving in every circumstance.

It's like freedom of speech: I don't have to agree with the speech itself, I still believe in your right to say it

I am 100% pro choice (in the sense that I don't believe you need a "reason" to end a pregnancy) but cases like this do make me very sad. It seems very cold.

I think if you "have your year planned" the only sensible thing to do would be to use protection.

There are plenty of things that are legal, but where I judge the decisions of the players involved depending on the circumstances.

Having more children that you can afford/cope with, adopting an animal you have no intention on caring for properly etc.

But what’s the alternative? Stricter controls on peoples’ lives. We just need to accept that with freedom of choice, some people will chose to make decisions we don’t agree with and actually that’s the lesser of two evils.

I wouldn’t judge the abortion, I would judge the couple for being laissez faire with contraception knowing they weren’t ready for a child.

Well, I think you are being quite self-aware to consider your reaction.

I think we all have occasions where our internalised reaction to a situation doesn't fit with our rationale view, because we grew up with views that we've later questioned.

It isn't a baby, it's a collection of a few cells. Even if it was a baby, the woman has a right to body autonomy, and she is allowed to decide how her body is used. I suspect you know this, though.

I suspect that "I'll try again in a few years" really means "I don't want a baby but I don't feel I can say that".

I wonder if your thoughts could be less about views about abortion, and more about the narrative in society that women are meant to sacrifice themselves for others, and the woman is putting her own comfort and enjoyment first? Even though I believe that's fine, I still catch myself being judgemental when I see women doing this sometimes, because misogyny is locked deep in my head!

I think that you can be pro choice without necessarily believing someone is making a good choice. The key point is that you believe she should have that choice.

I think women should be able to dress however they choose. It doesn't stop me silently thinking some women choose stupid outfits... I just wouldn't try to stop them.

I think there’s an indifference from the woman. They are having sex without contraceptions during her fertile window, not taking the morning after pill. Then saying “becoming a mother is fascinating” like it’s some social experiment. Then she’s decided that the social experiment isn’t worth her holidays but she can try properly in a few years with the assumption she’ll fall pregnant easily and with no issues to the child.

It’s not the choosing the abortion for me, that might be the best, but the casual approach to family planning and not acknowledging that her choices affect more than her. Children aren’t some sort of social experiment. With your child being so ill, you of all people know this. You know the commitment of children and how things don’t go to plan. Added into that, your friend is the dad, not the mother, and he was genuinely excited and so some of you feelings will be coming from his disappointment too.

I think the woman was insensitive to have this conversation with you, especially when you detailed what you’ve been through.

Women should never have to continue a pregnancy if they don't want to, for whatever reason.

Daft that they're being stupid with contraception though. That's a separate problem.