I thought I was pro-choice, is this judgey?

[Calmondeck]

I always thought I was pro-choice. I know the difficulties that can come with pregnancy, I understand the complexities of becoming a parent. And yet I suddenly find myself frustrated at a woman I know for choosing not to follow-through with her pregnancy. Does that mean deep down I am not pro-choice?

In a nutshell, I am friends with the male partner in a couple together for 1.5yrs. They’ve been having sex without contraception but avoiding her fertile window. Several weeks ago, had sex in the fertile window, discussed whether or not to use the morning after pill, (apparently) mutual decision not to. Now early days pregnant. The woman reached out to me asking to meet for a chat “on all things birth and motherhood”. I told her I’m probably not the best person to speak to since my review of motherhood is somewhat clouded by spending half of my toddler’s life in hospital as he undergoes aggressive chemotherapy for infant cancer.

We met anyway. The first thing she said was “I’m getting cold feet, we decided to throw caution to the wind, I’m 35 so thought it’s unlikely the first time ever I have sex in a fertile window I would get pregnant, but now that I am, I was excited, and now I’m suddenly scared. I follow all of the midwives on Instagram even though I wasn’t actively planning to become pregnant, I just think becoming a mother is fascinating”.

I was sympathetic and honest about all of the pros and cons from my tiny experience.

My friend, the dad-to-be, is shocked but genuinely excited.

The pregnant woman has decided today that she will get an abortion. And suddenly I feel deeply sad for this growing little person. And frustrated that the mum said “I had my year and travels planned. I’ll try again in 2 years”.

I was just on my phone earlier this morning when I first posted and it gets glitchy – no bluntness intended. A more in depth version would have been that, to me, realising the situation has nothing to do with you and not dwelling on your emotions about it will help in feeling less judgemental and moving on from it. I think that's good practice for anyone trying to embody a pro-choice attitude.

I could be wrong, but I personally feel it wasn't the act itself that has bothered OP, it was the optimism/excitement (which they involved OP in) and then the sudden, and quite flippant, change of mind.

I know you say it's a bunch of cells, and it is, but I think that once you talk about the life inside you, and talk about what the future could hold, the excitement and what type of mother/parents you'd be, you've almost given that bunch of cells a lifeforce/personality and a potential future (hypothetically at least), then decided against it through no fault of their own, it can be hard for anyone who has suffered trauma or loss to reconcile that fully.

OP was the absolute wrong person to have offloaded all that on to, given that her own child is going through cancer treatment and it's no surprise that it's left her feeling a little sad about the road not travelled.

OP's not saying her friend shouldn't be allowed to terminate. She's saying she feels sad that her friend has made that decision.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable.

Like you, I consider myself pro-choice and would not ever support restricting abortion, but I don’t think that means I have to celebrate every abortion. Your friends have made some poor decisions by the sounds of things and I think it’s ok to think that (personally I wouldn’t say it to them, but the whole thing would make me feel a little differently about them).

Abortion is no fault. It's not about the fault of the baby or punishing it. That's not the way I look at it.

Well said. I agree that the friend was selfish and insensitive under the circumstances. I mean she's asking about OP's experiences with parenthood when her son his fighting for his life?

That is utterly ridiculous in implying her experience is typical motherhood is callous of her.

I'm pro choice (and have had one myself when younger) but I do now think it's a serious thing. My current child was diagnosed with a serious health problem at the end of the first trimester so I had an advanced scan. All body parts and organs were developed at three months in.

i mentioned this on a reddit thread that a fetus at that age isn't just a sack of cells as someone had claimed, and was told I was wrong about that and lying about having had an abortion. So yes, I would say I'm pro choice but there is a school of thought that an abortion is nothing at all, whereas I think it's a little more nuanced and not as trivial as some people claim.

Being pro-choice means you believe in the womans fundamental right to make that decision for herself. It doesn't mean you have to agree with every single individual decision made by every single individual woman, as long as you understand that it's her decision to make.

I support freedom of speech, I'd still distance myself from a friend who used that freedom to say things I found unpleasant or offensive.

I think this is where nuance comes in to arguments around pro-choice.

I will never support legislation around what I can and can't do with my body (although that being said, I think the current abortions laws are fair).

Do I like and support the reason for every abortion? No.

I find your friend's approach hard to swallow.

But not liking other people's choices is the price we pay for freedom. And it's a price I'm willing to pay.

In this type of situation; it makes me think that people with this view really do only view women as incubators....

She sounds like an insensitive arsehole for coming to you, knowing what you are dealing with with your son.

I would feel the same as you.

I agree- as said, I would fight for the right to choose. Did in the past, would do again. But I also remember the context of the fight for pro-choice, and what women like my mother and others before her, had to go through. NO contraception, huge pressures, and even rape. And I want that to be respected, and for women to stop playing the victims when they decide not to take any responsibility with their sexuality, and even worse, play this really stupid 'game' of take very deliberate risks, russian roulette style.

I have been really taken aback by the huge munber of thanks to my comments above- 2 dozen so far. Women like me who are pro-choice, but are really concerned about the lack of responsibility taken by so many women (and men - but that is another story. Takes 2 most of the time, apart from rape), and feel strongly that with freedom comes responsability. Always. But no-one is allowed to voice this- for fear of being attacked by others.

If you were a doctor who has had to perform fairly late abortions time and time again- on woman refusing contraceptive advice, or sterilisation, on grounds of their 'human rights' - then what? If you don't work in sexual health care, you are probably not aware such cases are much more frequent than you can possibly imagine.

I would still fight for pro-choice.

In the kindest way I think your own heartbreakingly difficult situation is clouding your judgement. I completely understand your irritation and she has been very tactless in approaching you in this way.

But I’m afraid pro choice means pro choice, even for crashingly tactless and apparently selfish people. It’s not an a la carte system.

Pro-choice is one thing but using terminations as your form of contraception is not.

I think saying 'I'm pro choice, but..' is a slippery slope. Start putting conditions in place and those who look to restirict our rights have an edge to lean on.

Personally I don't think I could have an abortion now I've had a child, but before that I would have had one in a heartbeat if the situation had arose.

'I don't feel ready to bring a baby into the world' is a completely valid reason to have an abortion.

I really don't see an early foetus as being an individual or a 'child'. At that point it's still a part of a woman's body and could become a child.
I find it difficult to lament the loss of something that has never really been. I am hoping this not come off as insensitive. I've had a miscarriage before and know lots who've had abortions. I don't know of anyone who actively regretted terminating. But everyone's different and you have the right to feel sad. She probably will go on to have a child in a few years when the times right.

Pro choice is pro choice, even for women who play vicitms. If I got pregnant tomorrow,- v unlikely-there is absolutely no way I would have a baby. Because I don't want one. The end. Maybe a sack of cells, maybe not. I dont care.

Nothing has made me more pro choice then having a baby myself. If a baby isn’t wanted I really do think the best thing is to terminate, I don’t think someone should have the life long commitment of motherhood just because they’ve been stupid with not taking proper precautions. A pregnancy shouldn’t be a “punishment” for being daft and not using correct contraception.

I think this is where I sit too. It's a slippery slope, and as soon as society starts applauding people for putting conditions on it, then it can potentially land itself in very hairy territory. And that's something women can just not afford to have happen.

Hence my advice was to disregard your own feeling about it and swiftly move on.

Sorry haven't read the full thread but If she was in her fertile window the morning after pill prob wouldn't have worked anyway would it? I thought it just delays ovulation.

Anyway, I don't blame you for judging and I don't blame her for changing her mind. My children were very much wanted but I definitely had moments of 'shit, what have I done'.

If you still think she should be allowed the choice to go through with an abortion despite disagreeing/feeling sad for what could have been, I'd still consider you v much pro choice.

thats enough internet for me today

Fucking hell "learning disabled daughter was raped in her sheltered home and they said if she was to get pregnant they would raise the child. And they did, with as much love as they gave to their other nine kids."

Indeed. Just horrifying.

As a parent/want to be parent I think you know more realistically what a pregnancy is (I know everyone does academically but until you've given birth I think it's easier to be a bit more theoretical about it all). I think you can still be pro-choice but feel sad about someone's decision. Exactly as you can support a friend who makes a choice to go back to an abusive husband whilst also being sad about it. Having a seriously unwell child is also obviously going to make you value life even more.

Hi op, not read all the responses but as her friend,id want her to realise it’s not as easy as getting a chance again in two years.This may be her only chance.
She is not in her 20sin fact edging towards her 40s. Many of us on this board post 30s struggled and have had ivf or losses. She is very naive in this respect. It needs to be carefully thought about to avoid a mistake and regret. An educated decision about fertility post 35

Having been a parent of a child with cancer, I think you should be kind to yourself and not worry if, in this instance, you have been judgey or not. How you’re supposed to have rational thinking over a subject like termination while you are watching your own child fight for life I’m not sure. I think they were insensitive to not listen to your concerns about being a shoulder to cry on in the first place.

I think your instinct was Bob on. You weren’t in a place to have that chat

trust your gut next time!