To not want to be involved in these contact arrangements?

[Julio56]

My husband works shifts and always has done. This can change week to week and it was agreed with his ex when they separated that he would let her know as soon as he had his timetable so they could plan the days he has their two DC. This happens a month in advance typically, sometimes a little more.

Now...I appreciate as someone who also shares a child with him that it can be frustrating month to month. His ex has decided she wants set days now going forward which obviously DH cannot agree to as he'll at some point be working on those days.

She has suggested we sort it out "as a family" I.e. I look after the DC when DH is working.

Aibu to say no I won't be getting involved? This arrangement was the official child contact arrangement set when they divorced years ago and she like me decided to have children with a shift worker so its just tough luck really? 🤷‍♀️

don’t think OP hasn’t said what ages the DC are, but IMO a 4 week changing rota would be difficult for DC.

My suggestions were actually for OP’s H to find another job, in order to fulfil his parenting responsibilities himself, or to have the DC less than the current 50/50.

Excellent.. exactly what we need. Less a&e Dr's.

He is fulfilling his parenting duties. And even having them less wouldn't solve an issue working rotad shifts would it? And does mum really want that considering she'd rather them spend time with op just so she doesn't have to have them? (No offence at all op)

The kids are between 10-12 according to one of ops posts.

He's an A&E doctor.

Courts give leeway to shift workers especially those who police or work for NHS. These jobs need to be done by someone.

Plus due to the children's approximate ages, particularly the older one who is in secondary school, then the children can vote with their feet if they don't want to see their father.

The adults all need to stick to the Court order.

And another point is - this is court ordered.

The other way round and dad was asking to change court ordered access? It would be "well let him take you back to court then. Can't afford it? Obviously doesn't care about his kids"

Double standards. This is the status quo. It works for the children, whom this is actually about. It's not about benefitting mum or dad. This is their normal and unless they are specifically asking for change, and know that any changes would end up with them being alone/in childcare rather than with a parent, then it should remain.

Or she should indeed take him to court and explain why she needs it to change, no?

Exactly.

It's funny how women manage but excuses are always made for men. The double standard would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Are you joking? I'll refer you to my earlier posts about how the replies would be very different if this was a woman.

Would you be encouraging them to break the court order, see the kids less and stick them in childcare?

No. You wouldn't.

And yes he would have to cope if his ex wife died, but that irrelevant considering that she's very much alive surely?

I agree the current schedule isn't fair on the dc or indeed the ex.

Whilst being a doctor is clearly important his needs don't trump others. It's a level of arrogance that some men have that the women in their lives exist to facilitate them....

The OP said the ex knew he was a shift worker when she decided to have children....

But no one questions that the father knew he was a shift worker when he himself decided to have children....where is his agency? Why is it being minimised?

The misogyny that surrounds situations like this is blatant.

That doesn't mean he should expect her to work around him all the time. Why should she be limited? They're separated now.

Because that is what is currently best for her children.

It's strange because usually mnetters are always about what's best for the children, unless it puts mum out apparently. If it puts dad out? Fine.

She married an a&e doctor. She was always going to have to work around a shit schedule. Its court ordered.

So nobody who works shifts should have children? They quite obviously agreed to have children together.

I'll ask you again. Would you put your children in overnight childcare in this situation?

She absolutely shouldn't. No wonder she's fed up.

I'm sure as a doctor he is more than capable of organising and paying for childcare

Why? Why is it better that he DC are out in childcare over being with either parent just to suit the parents?

And as you pay for set days that wouldn’t work with shifts either. At the moment they are with mum or dad.

If mum wants set days and she’s changing the pattern she should pay for childcare.

So are you saying she shouldn't follow court ordered access and do what's best for her kids?

What should she do?

I was in the position of the ex-wife. My ex wasn't doing shift work when we got together. He chose to leave when the children were small. I got 3-4 weeks notice of availability for his contact with the children. He was in an NHS/emergency services role, with lots of weekend work. It was really stressful and unpleasant. It's very difficult not being able to plan ahead for anything and being dependent on someone you likely don't have a great relationship with. It's just very tiring having to factor in someone else for everything. It's very different to being in a relationship with someone in that kind of role, where there is a sense of working together and you can see the benefit for the whole family.

• It isn't reasonable to expect someone to live like that. There may not be alternatives, it may be necessary, but it's still not a reasonable expectation and ex-wife is reasonable to be annoyed by it.

• When the children are young it's easier to manage. You can tell them far enough in advance where they will be. As they get older they want to be more independent and have more control over their lives and their free time. It might well be possible to do this within this situation by changing how things are framed and allowing more control (a shared google calendar, letting the children have more of a lead in how things are devided, deliberately talking about it in these terms).

• Yes, OP's husband could change careers to accommodate the children and ex-wife. It's probably not reasonable or desirable to expect it though. However, has he explored all the options for more stability and predictability (e.g requesting some kind of fixed time off, shift swaps with colleagues etc)? It's really easy for him to say he can't do anything about his situation, because that would require more effort from him and the impact currently falls on other people.

• 50-50 in these circumstances is probably not helping - it's increasing the amount of uncertainty and negotiation required.

• No, OP, you shouldn't be expected to get involved. It sounds like you are already helping out by being available for holidays/nights out etc.

This.

Well said.

Just because something is court-ordered, doesn't mean it's what's best for the kids.

If my kids were telling me they were unhappy with the arrangements, I would go with what they wanted and tell dad to take me back to court if he was unhappy with me putting my DC's interests and feelings first.

But are they? Because that hasn't been said. Mum wants it to change.

And if the kids do want change do they realise that they'd probably be alone / in childcare more?

If they want change and are happy with that by all means she should go to court.

But we don't know if the kids want change. We just know the ex does.

How am I supposed to know? I was answering a hypothetical question.

And what childcare do you think they'll need? One is in secondary school and one is in year six. They can come home alone and be alone after school if mum has to work.

This is for your DH and his ex to sort out amongst themselves @Julio56 I would imagine you have enough on your plate with your own children, working around your DH's shifts. I have been there myself. So they need to come to an agreement together that doesn't end in piling more work on you. Good luck.

With children age 10-12, surely the obvious thing would be to ask them what they want.

Personally there's no way I'd be happy about children that age living between two households without set days, though I'd accept that if it's what the kids wanted.

The stresses and academic demands are going to start ramping up soon for both of them, but especially the older one. They're at the age where they're gaining greater independence and will be expected to take responsibility for their own learning, schedule and belongings. How can they do this successfully if there's no consistency and they don't know whether they're coming or going? Talk about hobbling your children's life chances for your own gratification.