To not want to be involved in these contact arrangements?

[Julio56]

My husband works shifts and always has done. This can change week to week and it was agreed with his ex when they separated that he would let her know as soon as he had his timetable so they could plan the days he has their two DC. This happens a month in advance typically, sometimes a little more.

Now...I appreciate as someone who also shares a child with him that it can be frustrating month to month. His ex has decided she wants set days now going forward which obviously DH cannot agree to as he'll at some point be working on those days.

She has suggested we sort it out "as a family" I.e. I look after the DC when DH is working.

Aibu to say no I won't be getting involved? This arrangement was the official child contact arrangement set when they divorced years ago and she like me decided to have children with a shift worker so its just tough luck really? 🤷‍♀️

Imo it would look like what they're already doing.

His work sounds incompatible with being a 50/50 (or near that) parent.

He either needs to change jobs or go to EOW with maybe one evening/dinner a week.

His poor children. Not only do they have to contend with a shared care arrangement, but they also don't know which days/nights they will be spending with each parent.

To clarify - I'm not against shared care or 50/50 arrangements. I think with both parents on board they can work fine. But I don't think it's acceptable that the kids don't even know, for example, whether Monday or Thursday will be spent with Mum or Dad and in which house.

This is between the ex and DH. You should not only keep out of it, but be kept out of it. If you become the de facto babysitter then how does this affect your life? What about your working hours and down time?

Whatever position you choose to adopt, make it clear and stick to it. If, and when, this goes to court you will need to speak with the solicitor to protect your own back. Ask what rights taking responsibility for the step children grant you and take it from there. (If you have no rights, you should have no responsibilities.)

Yes I'm amazed a judge agreed that arrangement. Rubbish for the DM and rubbish for the DC particularly once they start having after school and weekend activities.

It seems astounding that it's impossible to get a role within the NHS with set shifts.

I do think ex has a right to feel aggrieved. It’s really hard to progress at work if you don’t have hours you are regularly available for. I get he wants to see his dc but it shouldn’t be solely at his convenience.

Whilst 50:50 with two weeks notice might of been possible at the time of separation, it isn’t working now.

he does an extra shift if they are short staffed - again a conscious choice and doesn't seem to increase the CM he is paying

I think you're confused. He only ever works an extra shift on the 1 day a week he has off where he isn't supposed to have the DC. And a lot of the time he will have them on that day anyway making it 4 days a week a lot of the time that he ends up having them.

And I've already said he pays maintenance (more than the calculator) based on having the DC 3 nights a week (even though he often has them 4 nights a week).

To answer some questions:

• mum works in a 9-5 job.

• the children are in school, one in last year of primary and one just started secondary. Often the secondary DC collects the younger from primary and walk home together. They stay by themselves either at mums or at ours until we are home (I work 9-5 too).

• previously when after school care was needed, they paid half each for this. DH also covers school dinners now for the eldest in secondary.

• she can make plans whenever she wants (for the next week, for the next 3 months or whatever) we have always accommodated any holiday or night out or whatever she's wanted to do, often meaning I look after them if DH ends up being at work that day.

• DH is a doctor working in A&E so it isn't always possible for him to leave straight away when his shift ends. He does most of the time but understandably if he's in the middle of an emergency he can't.

• he won't change career. He is very passionate and good at his job.

• yes I accept that if we ever separated I'd end up having to do the same probably. I know his job and I know the situation and i decided to have children with him.

Surely even A&E drs could ask for flexible working? What if he was a full time parent, what would he do then? I'm not saying he has to give up his job but at least request set shifts?

How long has this court order been in place OP?

With your update OP, it does seem odd that she is questioning the arrangement now, just at the point when the DCs are getting more independent and don't need after school care.

I know it's not your problem but i wonder if it's worth DH trying to understand where this request is coming from - perhaps the DCs themselves want a more stable routine, or maybe the DM has a new DP and wants to plan the odd weekend away without being made to feel she is being granted a favour.

If he could understand then perhaps they could agree something that works for both parties, although this may involve some compromise on his part.

I think she's probably got to the stage where she's fed up of working her life around 4 weeks notice of her ex's shifts. Unfortunately, she now expects you to step in and accommodate so the children are with you set days/nights.
Perhaps unfairly, it feels as though your husband has expected his ex to work around his shifts, and now expects you to take your turn. What's he actually said when you told him 'no way?'
I would go with her request for fixed days / nights and make it 50/50 (and no child maintenance in that case), as it's not for ever, but get the child access order changed to reflect this.

@Scarletttulips

Why has she asked to change?

Presumably because young pre school/infant school children don’t care if they’re at mum or dads at any given time.

once they’re moving into secondary, making their own plans, concentrating on study/hobbies/friends they need a little more autonomy and want to know where they are going to be from one week to the next.

the current arrangement is shit for the DC.

Course they can ask. And get told no. Very easy business case to make as to why they can't offer that.

How is it shit? They know weeks in advance?

And they get to see their dad?

How is seeing their dad less, better?

The only person this would be better for is the mum.

Fixed days are reasonable and what most courts would order. I'm sure as a doctor he is more than capable of organising and paying for childcare. If he really is incapable of doing that, maybe it is time for a career change. Ex should not have to work her whole life around your DH.

As children get to secondary school, they generally want more autonomy and want to be able to plan things with their mates. If they know (for example) that on Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday they'll be at dad's, they can plan around that. If they don't know from one month to the next where they'll be on any given day, it makes things harder.

They wouldn't necessarily need to see dad less under new arrangements either. Just on set days - even one week of abc and one week of xyz would be easier than the current set-up.

I just want to point out to you OP that you don't have to organise your life around your DH either OP. Your DH may manipulate you into thinking this way but it is not true. You are just as entitled to a full life as your oh so very important DH. He earns more than enough to organise childcare to cover his 50% of parenting. Please don't waste your life propping him up.

Well if your DH is a Dr in A&E then casually suggesting he changes his job isn't really an option. He can certainly apply for set days but with the state of the NHS I can't imagine it's going to be granted. He has a court order so if his Ex is so keen for set days she'll have to take him back to court but I can't see anyone changing it.

If the children ask for it to change then the courts may well consider it - they do take the DC's requests into account as they get older.

Plus, once they get to a certain age you can't force them to go anyway, so dad may find he sees much less of them anyway if he's not around and not willing to at least try and change his hours.

Contact is so the DC spend time with their DF, not so that the DM gets free time. YANBU to refuse to be a part of this. You're not the parent of these DC and it's neither fair nor reasonable for the onus to be put on you to either facilitate contact or pick up the slack when your DH isn't available. If he isn't available, they should be with their DM.

@lifebeginsaftercoffee what no one has picked up is the Op's post at 09.58 where the Ex said contact would have to be set days or nothing- which suggests to me that she's now of the mind that as the DC are old enough to refuse contact she'll just stop sending them unless she gets her own way. Usually MN says if a parent won't let you see the DC you get a court order, if you really wanted to see your DC you'd get a court order, well, he's got one but it's not going to help if their DM won't abide by it.
Yes, the DC are getting old enough to want their own social life but does that really matter more than their relationship with a parent? If their DF was suggesting that the didn't need to see their DM MN would be outraged

"Yes, the DC are getting old enough to want their own social life but does that really matter more than their relationship with a parent?"

Well yes to most teens their social life is the most important thing in their life, and usually DPs try to work round it to remain involved, rather than making them sacrifice it to maximise contact time. The DH sees them 4 nights most week, if that needs to reduce slightly to accommodate them meeting friends and doing activities well it's not like they are never going to see each other again.

If he is a training doctor, then he gets his shifts further in advance than that.

If he's not, then he should be negotiating better working pattern or set working pattern. He holds the power in that dynamic. A&E doctors in short demand.

• DH is a doctor working in A&E so it isn't always possible for him to leave straight away when his shift ends. He does most of the time but understandably if he's in the middle of an emergency he can't.

This changes things a bit, he may have less flex with his hours/shifts than other jobs? Is this why the court ordered the contact to fit around his shifts? And yes, of course his finish times may vary due to emergencies.

I remember being a teenager @rookiemere and yes, your friends were the most important thing so I won't disagree with that! Trouble is we don't know why their DM has suddenly asked for set days now - Op says they accommodate her social life as much as possible but not why their DM has suddenly had a change of heart, if it's for the DC's good that's one thing, but it seems a bit off to me to say she can't afford to go back to court but she's just deceided she won't abide by the court ruling anymore

My partner works in icu and the shift patterns are not in the slightest family friendly but he asked for and was given 2 set days off every week to allow me to do what I do (it’s not traditional 9-5 either) for at least 2 days - but I have given up a lot to support him in his job and while his income supports our family it was a huge sacrifice for me and not one I had originally agreed to when we had children (he had a different job).

I understand the ex’s frustration. She is no longer married to him but is still at the mercy of his shift work and that is unfair (and slightly controlling) - it is not for you to resolve his problem however and you need to put your foot down. It’s expected when you blend your families that there will be degrees of compromise but that doesn’t entail you taking over his parenting duties on his behalf when he refuses to request set days off to take responsibility for his own children.

It is very much possible for him to get those set days off but it requires action from him and probably a lot of nagging from you and the ex.