Page 11 | To not want to be involved in these contact arrangements?

Julio56 · 2024-03-16T07:20:01+00:00

My husband works shifts and always has done. This can change week to week and it was agreed with his ex when they separated that he would let her know as soon as he had his timetable so they could plan the days he has their two DC. This happens a month in advance typically, sometimes a little more. Now...I appreciate as someone who also shares a child with him that it can be frustrating month to month. His ex has decided she wants set days now going forward which obviously DH cannot agree to as he'll at some point be working on those days. She has suggested we sort it out "as a family" I.e. I look after the DC when DH is working. Aibu to say no I won't be getting involved? This arrangement was the official child contact arrangement set when they divorced years ago and she like me decided to have children with a shift worker so its just tough luck really? 🤷♀️

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 19:47

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 19:37

I think you were brave to post on AIBU - this board and MN in general hate stepmothers. The narrative is always “but you knew he had children” or “DH is an arsehole” as long as he doesn’t do exactly what his ex wife wants. The situation is not ideal but it is what it is. There’s a court order and neither you nor DH have to do anything at all. She can ask and you can both say no. If the worst comes to the worst, reduce CM to the exact amount as per calculator and pay for childcare. As a matter of fact, you should be doing it regardless. She can’t have her cake and eat it too - the degree of entitlement there is astonishing. And no, I really don’t want an A&E doctor changing jobs because his 9-5 EX and MN would find it more fair. Finally, with soon 2 secondary age children I don’t even understand why it’s such a big deal - she won’t even need childcare as she works 9 to 5 unless she wants to do an overnight.

So a Dad, that isn't even doing 50% of the care of his children should now give the legal minimum to his children to what, show the bitch who's boss? Plenty of very important jobs are 9 to 5 by the way.

I do agree though the the the degree of entitlement is astonishing though on his part. Choosing to be a parent 3 times over but expecting women (and his children!) to bend over backwards to make that work.

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 19:54

flowerfairy6004 · 17/03/2024 18:48

I think you are being unreasonable to be honest. You married a man you knew had children. Therefore you knew you were becoming a stepmother. The contact order they had was probably written before you were married and therefore she didn’t have any choice however now you are a married couple and could make her life easier by agreeing to set days - something she will be requiring for childcare as no childminder or childcare facility that I am aware of allows people to chop and change their days monthly. You are refusing out of spite - you don’t see those children as your responsibility despite being their stepmother. You’re not a new girlfriend who may not be on the scene for long presumably you’re in it for the long run? So yeah I think you’re being very selfish and your step children deserve better.

But it’s not about childcare though as the kids are between 10 and 12 - it’s about her child free days. So the righteous indignation is not quite appropriate.

Helen1625 · 17/03/2024 19:57

Julio56 · 16/03/2024 10:02

He's supposed to have the children 3 nights a week and always does in accordance with the shifts he's given and is given to his ex. Sometimes on the 4th day off, he works as they are understaffed. But if he doesn't, he often ends up having the DSC on this 4th day too.

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Has she said why she wants set days going forward? Does she have a specific reason for it or is she being awkward?

Let's say it was agreed the 3 set days were Mon/Tue/Wed going forward. Then next week he happened to be working those days. You'd end up looking after the children, he wouldn't see them, more importantly they wouldn't see their dad. They'd miss out on contact altogether until his shift pattern next had him at home on Mon/Tues/Wed. Who benefits here? Certainly not the children. Surely the fairest thing for the children is for them to be there when their dad is at home?

I'm trying to understand what she's trying to achieve here?

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 20:00

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 19:47

So a Dad, that isn't even doing 50% of the care of his children should now give the legal minimum to his children to what, show the bitch who's boss? Plenty of very important jobs are 9 to 5 by the way.

I do agree though the the the degree of entitlement is astonishing though on his part. Choosing to be a parent 3 times over but expecting women (and his children!) to bend over backwards to make that work.

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No, not to show her who is the boss but to pay for things for his children rather than handing a sum to someone who doesn’t actually appreciate the fact that he is already giving her more than what she is entitled to and who (together with the OP) already is flexible when she needs them to have the kids outside of the court ordered schedule. And the point about a 9 to 5 job was not about importance but about the fact that she doesn’t actually need childcare (or not for much longer) given the ages of the kids. But while we are at it what important jobs are actually 9 to 5? Genuinely curious…

Springtime43 · 17/03/2024 20:03

flowerfairy6004 · 17/03/2024 18:48

I think you are being unreasonable to be honest. You married a man you knew had children. Therefore you knew you were becoming a stepmother. The contact order they had was probably written before you were married and therefore she didn’t have any choice however now you are a married couple and could make her life easier by agreeing to set days - something she will be requiring for childcare as no childminder or childcare facility that I am aware of allows people to chop and change their days monthly. You are refusing out of spite - you don’t see those children as your responsibility despite being their stepmother. You’re not a new girlfriend who may not be on the scene for long presumably you’re in it for the long run? So yeah I think you’re being very selfish and your step children deserve better.

Ah, the ‘you knew what you were getting into” line - YAWN

Riverlee · 17/03/2024 20:07

“I'm trying to understand what she's trying to achieve here?”

I think she’s trying to achieve regular days so she knows where she stands regarding childcare etc How can you plan afterschool clubs, events with the kids etc going forward if you don’t know where the kids are going to be in the next few weeks.

losthj · 17/03/2024 20:07

It doesn't really matter what mums doing.

Or what DH is doing.

The AIBU was AIBU to not get involved?

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 20:24

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 20:00

No, not to show her who is the boss but to pay for things for his children rather than handing a sum to someone who doesn’t actually appreciate the fact that he is already giving her more than what she is entitled to and who (together with the OP) already is flexible when she needs them to have the kids outside of the court ordered schedule. And the point about a 9 to 5 job was not about importance but about the fact that she doesn’t actually need childcare (or not for much longer) given the ages of the kids. But while we are at it what important jobs are actually 9 to 5? Genuinely curious…

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Well surely given that the implications is that the man would have to stop being a doctor if his ex didn't change her life to suit him each and every week, he should be paying above and beyond? You won't believe this but some doctors are married to other doctors and actually have children.

But while we are at it what important jobs are actually 9 to 5? Genuinely curious…
What a fucking moronic question! Plenty. Fucking plenty. But if you want an example my friend works 9 to 5 as a cancer research scientist. But genuinely, the world would not work without the people you may well deem as unnecessary, the nursery teachers, the school teachers, the mechanics, the tradesmen, the delivery drivers, the cleaners they're all important.

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 21:52

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 20:24

Well surely given that the implications is that the man would have to stop being a doctor if his ex didn't change her life to suit him each and every week, he should be paying above and beyond? You won't believe this but some doctors are married to other doctors and actually have children.

But while we are at it what important jobs are actually 9 to 5? Genuinely curious…
What a fucking moronic question! Plenty. Fucking plenty. But if you want an example my friend works 9 to 5 as a cancer research scientist. But genuinely, the world would not work without the people you may well deem as unnecessary, the nursery teachers, the school teachers, the mechanics, the tradesmen, the delivery drivers, the cleaners they're all important.

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You are quite funny as most of the jobs you listed are very much are NOT 9 to 5. Cancer research scientist is soooo not a 9 to 5 job if she is a good one. Very much plugged into research and academia and this is the last field I would describe as 9 to 5. School teachers? Really? This is why we have teaching burnout thread on MN every other day. Mechanics? They often have starts at 7am and Saturday shifts. Delivery drivers? Ever had your Ocado delivery slot at 9pm or on a weekend? Cleaners - none of mine, they all work 50+ hours and all the office/hospital cleaners work shifts and ungodly hours. Tradesmen often start at 6am and work weekends. May be, nursery teachers, know nothing about them. So a real 9 to 5 job may well be important but definitely more compatible with accommodating an A&E doctor’s schedule than the other way around.

OP, don’t give an inch. Neither you nor your DH. We all want our child free days and she’s getting them all right just on 4-5 week schedule. She’ll live.
PS Having been helped by A&E quite a few times throughout the years, having used Ocado evening slots, having attended parents evenings in the evening lol, camp shift workers all the way

KTheGrey · 17/03/2024 21:56

@nvcontrolfreak You are super 😻

I think the ex wife is chancing her CF arm.

flowerfairy6004 · 17/03/2024 22:02

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 19:54

But it’s not about childcare though as the kids are between 10 and 12 - it’s about her child free days. So the righteous indignation is not quite appropriate.

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Except that’s not true during school holidays is it? I wouldn’t leave my 12 year old home alone, would you? Set days means things can be planned in advance for the kids as well as the ex wife - OP says they always have the children when the ex has something planned but that means that poor woman always has to ask her ex and his new wife to accommodate her plans - I bet that’s great fun! Also I work in healthcare - loads of the doctors I work with make flexible working requests it is possible.

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 22:36

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 21:52

You are quite funny as most of the jobs you listed are very much are NOT 9 to 5. Cancer research scientist is soooo not a 9 to 5 job if she is a good one. Very much plugged into research and academia and this is the last field I would describe as 9 to 5. School teachers? Really? This is why we have teaching burnout thread on MN every other day. Mechanics? They often have starts at 7am and Saturday shifts. Delivery drivers? Ever had your Ocado delivery slot at 9pm or on a weekend? Cleaners - none of mine, they all work 50+ hours and all the office/hospital cleaners work shifts and ungodly hours. Tradesmen often start at 6am and work weekends. May be, nursery teachers, know nothing about them. So a real 9 to 5 job may well be important but definitely more compatible with accommodating an A&E doctor’s schedule than the other way around.

OP, don’t give an inch. Neither you nor your DH. We all want our child free days and she’s getting them all right just on 4-5 week schedule. She’ll live.
PS Having been helped by A&E quite a few times throughout the years, having used Ocado evening slots, having attended parents evenings in the evening lol, camp shift workers all the way

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Well yes, the majority of jobs aren't totally 9-5. But there are likely 1000000s that are incredibly important. In the same way ex wife's likely isn't completely 9-5 or OPs.

But as someone qualified in the field (in my unimportant mostly 9-5 role) I can tell you that if this goes back to court the likelihood is that set days would be granted.

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 23:12

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 22:36

Well yes, the majority of jobs aren't totally 9-5. But there are likely 1000000s that are incredibly important. In the same way ex wife's likely isn't completely 9-5 or OPs.

But as someone qualified in the field (in my unimportant mostly 9-5 role) I can tell you that if this goes back to court the likelihood is that set days would be granted.

Edited

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Well, not quite. The courts allow/regulate contact, they can’t actually force it. So if the court “grants” set days on which OP’s DH happens to work, then she’ll still be stuck with the kids. She can’t actually force OP’s DH to have them so he’ll just miss contact. How is it about kids’ needs? She may of course choose to dump them on OP’s doorstep but that’s not exactly in the best interests of the children, is it? So she’ll just end up with kids having less contact with their DF and less child free days for herself. The only way this situation can work out as per EXW’s wish if OP’s DH changes jobs and is actually available for set contact. Which he is clearly not doing nor is it in best interests of society.
To those who say he should put a flexible working request, don’t you think he wouldn’t have tried by now? And if all NHS stuff (especially A&E) would do that (majority are parents or carers of some kind I imagine), how would NHS run then?
And I am not saying it doesn’t suck for his ExW but it’s very much a first world problem she has. And it only lasts until the kids are teens anyway as then they pretty much float between the houses.

GrumpyPanda · 18/03/2024 03:55

@Herdinggoats

I can’t believe how much the tone has changed since the OP said “he’s a doctor”. Doctors can be arseholes too…just like the rest of us.

The tone has changed because people heard "shiftwork" and imagined, say, an overnight security guard who could indeed be expected to change career ID necessary. Not the same as an occupation he's spent years if not decades in training for.

GrumpyPanda · 18/03/2024 04:03

TheColdest · 17/03/2024 19:47

So a Dad, that isn't even doing 50% of the care of his children should now give the legal minimum to his children to what, show the bitch who's boss? Plenty of very important jobs are 9 to 5 by the way.

I do agree though the the the degree of entitlement is astonishing though on his part. Choosing to be a parent 3 times over but expecting women (and his children!) to bend over backwards to make that work.

Show quote history

Read the thread. He is doing pretty much 50 percent - between 3 and 4 nights depending on the week so de facto more than the official 3.

Codlingmoths · 18/03/2024 04:15

Helen1625 · 17/03/2024 19:57

Has she said why she wants set days going forward? Does she have a specific reason for it or is she being awkward?

Let's say it was agreed the 3 set days were Mon/Tue/Wed going forward. Then next week he happened to be working those days. You'd end up looking after the children, he wouldn't see them, more importantly they wouldn't see their dad. They'd miss out on contact altogether until his shift pattern next had him at home on Mon/Tues/Wed. Who benefits here? Certainly not the children. Surely the fairest thing for the children is for them to be there when their dad is at home?

I'm trying to understand what she's trying to achieve here?

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im sorry, in what way is this not spectacularly obvious? She’s trying to achieve being able to have some routine. I am booking my kids in for music lessons at home after school. I couldn’t do this if I were her as I wouldn’t know if my dc will be here. So many other reasons, both for dc and her benefit. She doesnt owe him working around his schedule. (And I have already posted about how I know doctors who’ve been emergency department and do other work as doctors that support their family and gives them regular hours now, so I don’t care that he’s a doctor)

Boymum2104 · 18/03/2024 05:30

YANBU for saying no, DH is BU even with shift work a flexible working request can be submitted. He needs to set aside time for his kids, they're not an afterthought once you've got your work schedule.

sarahd29 · 18/03/2024 06:00

Not read the whole thread but couldn’t he just explain to
employer and see if there is a more structured path first.

Starspangledrodeopony · 18/03/2024 06:45

TheColdest · 16/03/2024 17:07

I just want to point out to you OP that you don't have to organise your life around your DH either OP. Your DH may manipulate you into thinking this way but it is not true. You are just as entitled to a full life as your oh so very important DH. He earns more than enough to organise childcare to cover his 50% of parenting. Please don't waste your life propping him up.

JFC. 😂

The man’s an emergency medicine doctor. A valuable role. He has to work nights. He shares his rota as soon as it’s available, giving at least four weeks notice (when the court ordered his boy had to give two), often has them more than 50% and still pays maintenance. If he picks up an extra shift it’s only ever on the day he doesn’t hev the kids. He’s flexible and takes them whenever the mother needs him to.

He doesn’t sound like a monster…?

BlueFlowers5 · 18/03/2024 06:53

It's his child. I wouldn't agree because it might lead to bad childcare habits going forward. Dad needs to take responsibility for his time with his child and have it out with his ex about flexible 50/50 of their child.

TheColdest · 18/03/2024 07:29

nvcontrolfreak · 17/03/2024 23:12

Well, not quite. The courts allow/regulate contact, they can’t actually force it. So if the court “grants” set days on which OP’s DH happens to work, then she’ll still be stuck with the kids. She can’t actually force OP’s DH to have them so he’ll just miss contact. How is it about kids’ needs? She may of course choose to dump them on OP’s doorstep but that’s not exactly in the best interests of the children, is it? So she’ll just end up with kids having less contact with their DF and less child free days for herself. The only way this situation can work out as per EXW’s wish if OP’s DH changes jobs and is actually available for set contact. Which he is clearly not doing nor is it in best interests of society.
To those who say he should put a flexible working request, don’t you think he wouldn’t have tried by now? And if all NHS stuff (especially A&E) would do that (majority are parents or carers of some kind I imagine), how would NHS run then?
And I am not saying it doesn’t suck for his ExW but it’s very much a first world problem she has. And it only lasts until the kids are teens anyway as then they pretty much float between the houses.

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What the courts can do is give her a schedule where she definitely has her DC. Having to keep yours and your DCs whole life free beyond 2 weeks is not a first world problem.

You've presumed this is the ex looking for free time. The likelihood is that she gets more free time/misses out on time with her DC this way.

TheColdest · 18/03/2024 07:31

Starspangledrodeopony · 18/03/2024 06:45

JFC. 😂

The man’s an emergency medicine doctor. A valuable role. He has to work nights. He shares his rota as soon as it’s available, giving at least four weeks notice (when the court ordered his boy had to give two), often has them more than 50% and still pays maintenance. If he picks up an extra shift it’s only ever on the day he doesn’t hev the kids. He’s flexible and takes them whenever the mother needs him to.

He doesn’t sound like a monster…?

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This was in response to OP saying that like the ex the OP has commited to this shift pattern for life. If OP wishes to change careers she is just as entitled as her husband. Many many doctors manage to make set days work.

Pythonesque · 18/03/2024 07:41

Apologies if this has already been said; I think I've read that medical contracts are supposed to include no less than 6 full weeks' notice of rotas. I know there are lots of reasons why that often isn't honoured, but it might be a reasonable ask in this situation. It would mean that most time periods could have 2 months' notice to plan scheduling - the kids might well prefer that too.

Helen1625 · 18/03/2024 07:44

Codlingmoths · 18/03/2024 04:15

im sorry, in what way is this not spectacularly obvious? She’s trying to achieve being able to have some routine. I am booking my kids in for music lessons at home after school. I couldn’t do this if I were her as I wouldn’t know if my dc will be here. So many other reasons, both for dc and her benefit. She doesnt owe him working around his schedule. (And I have already posted about how I know doctors who’ve been emergency department and do other work as doctors that support their family and gives them regular hours now, so I don’t care that he’s a doctor)

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Could you be any more patronising?

It's perfectly reasonable to ask what's changed, given that it was agreed through courts and now she wants to change it.

Get off your high horse!

"I know doctors therefore..." you don't know THIS doctor and you don't know THIS person's circumstances. Wind your neck in!

uneffingbelievable · 18/03/2024 07:49

Your DH has not been accommodating - he dictates her life on a monthly basis even after they are divorced - that is controlling beyond belief.

I get he is a shift worker but has he actually bothered talking to his employers and worked something out even a fe set days or a weekend would make life a lot simpler for everyone. Ex has accommodated him +++. So yours and his life is organised as you want hers is organised around both of you except on the dd occasion, she may be needs to plan something more than a few weeks in advance.
She is not being unreasonable but your DP is extremely unreasonable