Would you complain about this? (Police behaviour towards a black and potentially vulnerable 16-year-old girl)

[Readytoplay]

TLDR at the end of the post, as this is long but I feel I have to explain the whole situation

Yesterday afternoon I was on a train, departing from a London Terminal. Just after we started moving, a ticket inspection began. The girl (who was black) in front of me didn’t have a ticket. The ticket inspector (White 40s male) was abrupt; and in my opinion rude; with the young lady who claimed she was 16 and homeless. He asked her if she could pay with a debit card, but she told him that she didn’t have one. He then asked her age and she answered 16. He then scoffed “What, you're 16 and don’t have a bank card”. (For what it’s worth I personally didn’t have a bank account until I was 17- and this was only last decade).

He then asked her where she was going. The girl responded with vague answers, such as: “a few stops” or “not far”. He then asked how she got on the train without a ticket and through the barriers. She told him that she ‘just did’. He then asked for a name and address. The first she refused to give and she repeated that she was homeless for the latter, the inspector answered ‘No you're not’, Before asking for some ID. He then left her for a moment after she claimed she didn’t have any, before coming back with an officer from BTP (also a white 40s male).

Now, I always record any encounter I have with the police directly OR if an encounter is happening in my proximity (this was literally the seat in front) so I started filming but with the camera face down so only sound would be recorded. the police officer showed his badge and began to ask for the same information as the ticket inspector. After she repeated what she had already said, he then asked for some ID, before asking what was in her bag and that he was going to search it.

I was about to intervene at this point as I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the tone and attitude these adult men were having with this young and likely vulnerable lady. Clearly, someone else felt the same and questioned the way the situation was being approached. I then also voiced my concerns and admitted that I was recording this. The other passenger started to tell the men that they thought how they were behaving was disgusting. I commented that if a 16-year-old minor was claiming to be homeless that shouldn’t they be offering them support? They said they would if they had some identification. I tried to explain that she likely doesn’t have anything due to her circumstances and then the part that really annoyed me: “as if she is homeless, dressed in all those brands”. I.E. doubting her circumstances because was wearing a Nike sweatshirt. WTF.

It ended with the other passenger ranting at the cop, before both the guard and cop got off at the next station. And that was that. They didn’t find any ID on the girl, and all that was in her bag were clothes and other personal essentials.

The girl was left visibly shaken and upset. I tried to see if she was alright. She explained to me that she was staying with her BF. I told her of some organisations to contact if she needed any support (Shelter/ Centerpoint). Before she got off I offered to give her a fiver (normally I wouldn’t give money to strangers, but would have in this case) but she declined.

Now, I have no idea if this girl was or wasn’t homeless. But am I wrong in thinking that the behaviour of the cop/train guard was completely inappropriate? There is very little of me who feels this wasn’t racially motivated. The fact that they searched her bag and the fact that both had an abrupt and aggressive attitude toward her really felt like profiling to me. Yes, the girl could have been more cooperative with some of the questions, but the intense questioning, mixed with the dismissive attitude would have likely made most people not want to cooperate.

I am thinking of sending the recording to both the train operator and BTP to express my concerns with what I witnessed, Manly:

1. The instant refusal to believe that this child could be homeless and the lack of support.
2. The racial profiling of a young black female
3. The aggressive attitude that was used throughout the situation.

I would also like to try and get the child checked up on, however, this is likely going to be difficult as I don’t know any details apart from what she told me and where she got off (which I won’t lie, was a bit further than a ‘couple of stops’) as I am worried that she hasn’t got any support. I am also a bit worried that she’s moving in with a bf as well.

TLDR: a young black girl who claimed she was homeless was aggressively Interrogated by a police officer and ticket inspector. They doubted her claims because she was wearing branded clothing. The girl was left viably shaken as a result.

What would you do?
YABU- Don’t report
YANBU- report

'I always record every interaction with the police' so you're not exactly an unbiased witness are you?

She was stealing and breaking the law. And they let her go? Sounds like she got off lightly.

The inspector was only doing his job. She had no ticket. Its not his responsibility to offer her support or advice. You are being totally unreasonable.

Your concern is commendable but I think you are being a bit naïve. BTP and guards probably hear all the excuses under the sun, day in, day out, and I don't see how being 16 and black is a get out jail free card here meaning that we should just excuse criminality. Maybe when people claim to be homeless and vulnerable BTP could do a better job of signposting help etc. but you can't just accept fare dodging and the yarns they spin when caught out.

Never mind this safeguarding bollocks, she was bilking a train journey, a criminal offence. The guard and the officer were doing their job. You saw one incident they will deal withoads of these every day and must get fed up with the same excuse s they have heard thousands of times before.

She was lucky she didn't get arrested, you have no idea if she really was 16 and she admitted she wasn't homeless so she was proved to be a liar. She probably travels all the time without a ticket and I have no time for people that think they are above the law whatever age or colour they are. If they gave her a bit of a scare and reality check so much the better, hopefully she'll think twice next time. The people who don't pay are one of the reasons tickets are so expensive.

It's a well known trick among students to claim to be homeless when caught fare dodging.

OP's spider senses were tingling for a reason. Worked for a homeless charity for 10 years. Homelessness doesn't mean you are sleeping rough, it means you don't have a safe place to call home. Loads of young, vulnerable girls came through our shelter. Many were often not even 16/18 yet as they claimed and all in tow with 'boyfriends' in 30s-40s who were drug addicts and groomed the girls do disgusting things to get drugs or a roof over their heads. Who knows who this 'boyfriend' is? Sadly, it's a recognised fact that black youths suffer the process of 'adultification' and seen less innocent and more adult-like. Even came up during a seminar on policing and race I attended this week.

As a black person I've experienced this. First time I was 11 years old, sick with an fever, resting in the back of my mum's car as she had to run an errand. 2 police cars turned up because they had reports that a black man was breaking into my mum's car. I was certainly not treated like a child (or a sick child at that). Never saw my mum so angry when she came back to her car surrounded by police, rudely questioning a sick child that could barely stand. Took me a few years to understand exactly why.

Thankfully OP has more moral fortitude than you and intervened.

So you’ve seen a young person traveling without a ticket, being obstructive to train staff,then refusing to cooperate with the police, and you’ve automatically put the police and train staff irritation down to racism. You recorded the incident on your phone and intervened, but only after somebody else intervened first, and now you’ve come on here asking whether you should report the incident and presumably get the train guard and the copper in trouble, simply for doing their job? Surely, if you were that concerned you would have reported already, without the need to seek lots of lovely social media approval for being so super inclusive and morally superior.

I can’t speak for that black girl, or indeed any black person because I’m white, but I’m pretty fucking sure they wouldn’t thank you for using them as a prop in your social media virtue signaling.

@moonfacer

Thankfully OP has more moral fortitude than you and intervened.

ah, the judgement of a random anonymous poster.

Cut to the quick, not.

Just bringing some information to the thread, sorry it doesn't conform to what you think people should say. But fortunately your opinion is unimportant.

Don’t be under any illusion that your mean spirited judgmental comment added anything useful to the thread.

I have been homeless (short-term but literally nowhere to go) as a young woman in London.

YABU.

@moonfacer

Don’t be under any illusion that your mean spirited judgmental comment added anything useful to the thread.

Don't be under any illusion that your one sided opinion matters.

👍

@moonfacer

Don't be under any illusion that your one sided opinion matters.

The difference between us is that I brought factual information that could lead to a better understanding of why they behaved that way. If you see it every day, it becomes tedious.

You just headed for what you consider to be the moral high ground without question.

<shrug>

Critical thinking not your thing.

Er, you just responded to your own comment 😂

I have worked in the past enforcing fare evasion, but not on trains where it is taken much more seriously than buses.

I know people who work on trains as ticket inspectors.

A white male uncooperative in that situation would at least be ejected from the train, reported for summons and if they refused to give details, arrested.

It wasn't unclear at all; you said several times that she was "homeless" but are changing the story to suit

And a general check of everyone's ticket isn't racial profiling - not even if someone they catch out just happens to be a person of colour

I’m not sure citing race here does the cause much good to be honest.

Are you really this foolish?

Or were you just hoping to share your story of 'police brutality' and get interviewed by This Morning or something.

1% chance that she was homeless
99% chance fare dodging

Well yes, I feel the police should of put her in touch with SS. Pretty sure that they do have a responsibility to do so.
What form exactly would "putting her in touch" with SS have taken? She refused to give a name or address, show any ID or even say where she was going? What were they supposed to do - give her a card with a phone number on, or remove her from the train to a police station to contact SS? And what would already overstretched SS have done with her?

It does indeed.

OP is naive

You record every encounter you have with the Police?

Really….why?

This is too ridiculous for words.

Yep , and wants to come off as a hero .

She had no ticket, it's their job to make sure people do. They are almost certainly wise to all the sob stories going.