They're better off dead... AIBU?

[CupcakeOdssey]

Not sure if I'm being funny here or what.

How you feel if this was said to you?

One of my close family members has cancer that has spread all over, they are on palliative care and taken it badly.
They had a heart attack and was resuscitated by hospital but now they've said they've signed a DNR as they're to weak to cope with that again.

I was telling one of my in laws about said family member and they said "why did they resuscitate them for? That was stupid they are better off dead!"

How would you take that? I'm quite shocked and a bit hurt by their comment.

A classic case of not what was said but the way it was said.
Wrong time, wrong place, but understandable thoughts.
I'm sorry you are having a difficult time right now

I'd think it but not say it like that.

I hope you're ok.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandad, OP.

I do think we as a society need to have more frank talk about death and end-of-life issues such as DNRs. Having done quite a lot of hands-on care with a family member with dementia and cancer, it's better tackled early rather than late, when someone is too far gone mentally and physically and yet modern medicine dictates we pump antibiotics into them or do CPR to bring them back from the brink and and again.

But these end-of-life conversations need to be both frank AND sensitive and that kind of talk doesn't usually come best from MILs one doesn't get along with.

I'd agree internally and say nothing to anyone. CPR is brutal, as is resuscitating someone, and a person already dying it seems bloody cruel- I wouldn't be happy if it was my relative. Someone already compromised with cancer, being resuscitated so that they can have all the complications that being resuscitated and still be terminal- that's was a shitty thing to have happen to them, in my mind

If your grandad is in his 80s my guess is that you're still relatively young, OP. Under 40? One of the things that happened to me as I got older and saw more and more people go through the dying process was that my thoughts about it changed. I'm now absolutely certain that there are worse things in life than death, having seen my mum, my favourite aunt and several friends die, sometimes painfully, from cancer. I know at least two of them were longing for it to be over quite some time before the end came. Perhaps your MIL has had a similar experience that has shaped the way she feels. I wouldn't say what she said, but I don't imagine she's alone in thinking it.

It’s one of those things that may be true but doesn’t need to be said out loud 😩 I’m sorry for what your relative is going through.

This.

People are insensitive. I recently lost my mum after a long illness with Alzheimer's and the amount of people who've said things like "it's for the best" is quite shocking. Even if I thought it (which, if I'm being really honest, I do), I wouldn't say it out loud to a grieving relative.
It's almost as though they think the loss is less because of the long illness. Actually, it just means the grief has been prolonged over many years, doesn't mean the final grief isn't just as valid.

I wouldn't say it out loud but I would be thinking it. And if someone said it to me about a loved one I would agree with them. When my mum had lung cancer I was more scared about her experiencing pain that dying because we knew it was terminal I just couldn't face the thought of her being in pain.

@Nevercloserfortherestofourlives My mum has advanced dementia and is end of life. She's been a zombie for years. Me and my close family have all discussed that we hope she dies soon. Harsh? Maybe but this is no life for anyone.

Not harsh at all.

It's a little bit tactless but I understand what they mean. They have no quality of life anymore.

I don't think you're being too sensitive.

If someone had said that to me about my Mum (had CPR/resuscitated several times) I would tell them to shut the fudge up regardless of who it was.

It's inappropriate for one thing and deeply hurtful. I wouldn't be able to forgive that comment quickly.

I'm so sorry about your relative and I hope they are comfortable and pain-free x

I totally understand how you feel as my (now ex) fil said something similar when my mum was taken ill. She went in to live 10 more incapacitated but happy years fully enjoying her family and grandchildren.

I’ve never forgiven him.

I am against euthanasia but I certaily dont agree with resuscitating terminally ill people who are close to death. Its a very difficult topic and people can come over as insensitive.

I’m a bit baffled how this has become a whole big discussion about resuscitation. OP’s question was about how the in-laws responded to her at this really distressing time. The point is that they could have given support and comfort, compassionate listening. Instead they focused on critiquing the hospital and making brutally insensitive remarks to someone at the start of their grieving process.

CupcakeOdssey it is absolutely understandable to be hurt and angered by this. Sadly many people don’t often practise empathy and many are unskillful in talk of death. Time for some careful consideration of boundaries to help you keep them at a distance while you are going through this tough time.

Sending blessings to you and your tender heart. May your relative pass knowing they are deeply loved and their life has been a gift, regardless of whether it ends gently or otherwise xx

I have certainly discussed whether people would have been better off dying before a grim end but I would pick who and where I would have that conversation very carefully. I have one or two relatives who would have been better off with a heart attack and dying a year or two before their ends, and I have a relative who was 'lucky' to go out quickly given how awful the end was likely to be. It's often a bit random who clings on and who doesn't and if they are suffering terribly, I know for myself I'd rather just die and not be resuscitated with incurable cancer if near the end of life. Ultimately you have died, it's just you were brought back to life. It's not an 'unnatural' or 'hastened' death, they call it 'natural death' in the hospice and when you go into one they tell you they won't be doing resuscitation or giving antibiotics or any life-prolonging interfering things.

That said, there's a time and a place for such comments, I don't think they are unusual though.

It's very insensitive especially if they don't know them personally. Watching something similar it's very hard watching cancer do its absolute worse to someone. But Im always thankful I'm not the person fighting to do it gor another day. Ie its only your call if your life's worth fighting for dispite everything

Hospice at home can be ok if there are genuinely nurses/assistants to be around a lot, but if you are dependent on a district nurse who is very busy to deliver the meds such as morphine or other opiates, then I would prefer to be in a hospice. There's more hands on deck, so if you need turning or moving, there's more people about, there's usually care within a minute or two, not waiting for hours, and they tend to be calm and peaceful places, our local hospice is lovely and not similar at all to the hospital to which its attached. I'd urge your grandad, if he's available, to get the local hospice involved from the start, whether at home or to go there for activities, so he can see it's not so scary and the thought of being looked after there on a nice comfy bed with 24 access to care might look more attractive than staying at home.

Well factually they’re right. However the only person who gets to make that call should be the one who’s ill.

That can't really be the case, can it, given the DNR?

It’s not harsh at all. It’s compassionate, it’s so hard watching someone you love dearly in pain and distress. I hoped and prayed for my mum to die when she was riddled with cancer and insisted on crawling round the house as she could stand up because the fucking cancer was in her spine.
She would definitely have been better off had she died sooner.

Couldn’t stand up

Definitely not harsh, my Dad had dementia and I just wanted him to die sooner rather than later. It us a very cruel disease and I sorry your family are dealing with this.

Didn’t want to derail the thread Cupcake. Sorry.
It’s so hard and painful when your loved one is at the end of life and my thoughts and sympathy are with you.
I hope and pray that your grandad has a peaceful end. That’s all any of us can hope for.