They're better off dead... AIBU?

[CupcakeOdssey]

Not sure if I'm being funny here or what.

How you feel if this was said to you?

One of my close family members has cancer that has spread all over, they are on palliative care and taken it badly.
They had a heart attack and was resuscitated by hospital but now they've said they've signed a DNR as they're to weak to cope with that again.

I was telling one of my in laws about said family member and they said "why did they resuscitate them for? That was stupid they are better off dead!"

How would you take that? I'm quite shocked and a bit hurt by their comment.

Well they had to by law until the DNAR was in place.

That's why these conversations need to be had in advance.

But they were a tad blunt.

They shouldn’t have said that, it was blunt, insensitive and overstepping massively.. but I can very much understand the sentiment. My uncle just died after a longgggg cancer ordeal and he is, in my humble opinion, definitely better off now he’s gone. Of course, those of us left behind are terribly upset because we loved him dearly, but it was no life, not by the end.

My dad worked in end of life care for the elderly (as a doctor) and he always said that if he's ever diagnosed with terminal cancer, or dementia or anything like that, he'd rather someone put a pillow over his face and put him out of his misery.

The idea of going home to die understandably sounds appealing to many, but the reality is that it's often very painful, drawn out and incredibly upsetting for those around you.

No. They don't have to resuscitate. They have to act in the persons best interest.

Doctors have to resuscitate if there’s no DNR don’t they?

Simple answer….no. Neither do Paramedics, though the guidelines are a bit stricter for Paramedics understandably.

Ok probably tacklessly said. But true.
Yes I have had a loved one die of cancer and having seen and performed Resus. I would say it is inappropriate and often cruel to inflict that on someone who is palliative
Sorry you are offended it's one of those thinks which perhaps shouldn't have been said out loud.

No, they didn’t.

So sorry that you’re being put under more stress by your thoughtless in-law OP. Please don’t take it to heart.

Maybe consider posting in the life limiting section for some extra support to help you cope with the pressure from all sides. I realise it’s a difficult time for you and sometimes a virtual handhold can be helpful. <<hugs>>

I remember DF saying to me when DGF (his FIL) was involved in a car accident in his early 90s that it would be better if he had been allowed to die. Instead he lingered on unable to move until age 99, and every time anyone visited he would say how much he wished he was dead.

It was an awful thing to hear at the time, but now DF is 90 I sometimes think that a car accident ( provided nobody else is hurt) is a swift and merciful end, compared to gradually losing your physical and mental health.

We don't really discuss these things enough sadly, but i agree it was insensitive to say it.

If you have seen it happen to your grandparents you might feel the same way years of pain and slow undignified decline is absolutely heartbreaking

my MIL has said please stick me in the garden overnight so I get pneumonia if I get to that stage ☹️

Its a terrible thing to say OP. The sheer arrogance of believing you can place a value on the remaining life of another person is shocking. Its also a very slippery slope when we start feeling free to pontificate on who in our not so humble opinion would be better off dead.

Well if you don’t have a DNR then they have to attempt to resuscitate

Not quite, @Zanatdy; as a PP just mentioned their responsibility it always to act in the patient's best interests, which can include refusing such treatment

They're now called a DNACPRs and obviously it's better if this has been discussed and something put in place beforehand, but they've still only advisory - to make it legally binding you'd need to write an Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment

Insensitive but I wouldn’t want to be resuscitated in those circumstances. So I’d be thinking the same thing.

However, your relative wants more time and they made that decision at the time. I’m sorry you are going through this. Enjoy the time you have.

Very thoughtless and insensitive to voice that, although I may have thought the same thing I would NEVER say it.

I hope you don't regret starting this thread OP

Some very blunt / insensitive responses

I’ve heard others say those words about people with various other conditions and illnesses. It has always made me shudder and feel angry when I hear smug healthy people say things like this about terminally ill people. I hate it.

I think people should be absolutely allowed to self euthanise but the only way to do it in this country is via a dna and even then, I’ve known of several end of life patients just being left to quietly expire alone in a room. Horrible shame.

They're entirely right, but it's only really something you can verbalise to people who you know extremely well and have the right kind of relationship with.

A family member said something similar to me when my dad had advanced Alzheimer’s. It was possibly true but I didn’t appreciate the comment at all and it was hard to hear. Some things better left unsaid imo.

This is the most important thing - what the person actually wants! If they want to be alive for as long as possible, to see family, to watch the Spring come in through their ward window - any reason at all, then it is a horribly insensitive thing to say,. But if they are ready to go, because their quality of life is so poor, then I think they have the right to choose DNR and allow their body to take it's natural course. But that's for them and them alone to decide.

Poor choice of words but undeniably true. As the terminally ill person has signed a DNR clearly they feel they same. Resuscitation techniques are hard on the patient and frankly pointless and cruel when someone is frail, in pain and at the end of life.

Quality of life is important and a good death is worth the loss of a few days of agony or unconsciousness for the dying patient. The feelings of their relatives is irrelevant if the person has had enough.

Same. I’d definitely think it.

But they have signed a DNR so this must mean that they don’t want to stay alive at all costs. As pp have said your family member’s comments are
insensitive but maybe they’ve seen the reality of a bad cancer death. I have and I would make that comment about my husband, my child or myself because it’s true. Sometimes palliative care doesn’t make for a pain free, peaceful death.
Im so sorry you’re going through this and I don’t know your relative so I might be way off the mark.

To be at that stage of cancer, they must be really suffering. I'm so sorry they went through a heart attack. So I totally agree with the sentiment, but it could have been expressed more gently.

I'm sorry but this is an extremely biased opinion.

Have you ever had to witness a family member slowly dying and suffering- being kept alive only for the benefit of the living?