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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

They're better off dead... AIBU?

203 replies

CupcakeOdssey · 11/03/2024 16:45

Not sure if I'm being funny here or what.

How you feel if this was said to you?

One of my close family members has cancer that has spread all over, they are on palliative care and taken it badly.
They had a heart attack and was resuscitated by hospital but now they've said they've signed a DNR as they're to weak to cope with that again.

I was telling one of my in laws about said family member and they said "why did they resuscitate them for? That was stupid they are better off dead!"

How would you take that? I'm quite shocked and a bit hurt by their comment.

OP posts:
LipstickLil · 11/03/2024 19:41

I'd rather die of a heart attack than suffer to the end with cancer, so while it was insensitive and I wouldn't have voiced it, I'd have thought the same.

MonsteraMama · 11/03/2024 19:42

It's very insensitive and hurtful to say it out loud while you're in the middle of going through it.

But having watched a relative die slowly of cancer, they also weren't entirely wrong. It can be horrendous. I imagine it was just a case of the filter not engaging quickly enough.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Nevercloserfortherestofourlives · 11/03/2024 19:45

Notjustabrunette · 11/03/2024 19:39

As awful as this is going to sound, dying at home I don’t think is all it’s cracked up to be. A good friend wanted to go home to die, she did and I think the pain would been better managed in a hospice. It ended up being quite a violent death oppose to slipping away.

And it can be very violent and brutal in a hospice, with all the drugs and therapies. Sometimes it doesn’t work and people should be allowed to die when it becomes unbearable.
I absolutely don’t think it’s up to me to decide for anyone else but I bloody well think I should be able to decide for me.

spidermonkeys · 11/03/2024 19:46

varyblue · 11/03/2024 16:46

It's a comment I'd think but never articulate

This. I thought this about my best friends mum for years. It was about 5 years of absolute hell for her and the family. No quality of life, just existing.

I would never ever have said it out loud though !

betterangels · 11/03/2024 19:47

HeddaGarbled · 11/03/2024 16:51

I’m surprised that resuscitation was attempted under the circumstances you describe.

I thought this.

Nevercloserfortherestofourlives · 11/03/2024 19:53

5128gap · 11/03/2024 19:39

I've already answered this. I've lost a parent to cancer. Luckily for her it wasn't the type of death you describe and right up until she could no longer speak (and went into coma then death) she said she did not want to die. I'm sorry for everyone's loss, but we can't extrapolate from our own experience that everyone else's is the same. I'm not saying every terminally ill person is better off alive, just objecting to the reverse view from many on here who believe they are always better off dead, to the point its ok to believe that about a stranger. It really isnt. Its arrogant and distasteful in the extreme. The OPs relative did not wish to die. They saw value in the remainder of their own life and no one should suggest otherwise.

Edited
Show quote history

I’m so sorry for the loss of your mother and I would absolutely have been of the opinion that she should have hung on to life if that’s what she wanted. I’m glad that she did and had a peaceful death. I’m not saying that I should have any view or say in what a terminally ill person should or shouldn’t do, only that their wishes should be respected.
The OPs relative signed a DNR and said that they are too weak to cope with another resuscitation (see the opening post) . All I’m saying is that their wishes should be respected.
Having said all that the other relative’s comments were spectacularly insensitive and crass.

Hoplolly · 11/03/2024 19:54

It's insensitive to say it out loud but I think it frequently about people. My own mother included?

HMW1906 · 11/03/2024 19:59

They were a bit blunt voicing it like that but they’re right. Your relative should’ve have a DNAR as soon as they were deemed to be palliative care only so they shouldn’t have been resuscitated when they had their heart attack, that was poor management by the medical team.

Nevercloserfortherestofourlives · 11/03/2024 20:03

Hoplolly · 11/03/2024 19:54

It's insensitive to say it out loud but I think it frequently about people. My own mother included?

Having had cancer three times (different varieties 🙄) I think this about myself and hope that I have some say in my end.

bridgetreilly · 11/03/2024 20:06

Resuscitation often doesn’t work and even when it does, the patient can end up in significantly worse condition than before. If the body has died (which is when you would attempt to resuscitate) then it is very often much kinder simply to let that be the end. In the case of a person with very advanced terminal cancer, that is what I would usually expect peopleto want. More time, when that time is full of pain and incapacity with no prospect of improvement, isn’t a great blessing.

Sletty · 11/03/2024 20:08

bridgetreilly · 11/03/2024 20:06

Resuscitation often doesn’t work and even when it does, the patient can end up in significantly worse condition than before. If the body has died (which is when you would attempt to resuscitate) then it is very often much kinder simply to let that be the end. In the case of a person with very advanced terminal cancer, that is what I would usually expect peopleto want. More time, when that time is full of pain and incapacity with no prospect of improvement, isn’t a great blessing.

Edited

I totally agree and don’t understand why it’s insensitive to voice that?

oakleaffy · 11/03/2024 20:08

@CupcakeOdssey I'm sorry you are going through this, seeing a loved one be ill like this.
I volunteered in a Hospice for a few years {non medical} and if someone's pain and nausea can be controlled , it massively improves quality of life.

Hospices also see people in their own homes.

I really hope your relative dies 'easily' as our Dad did, at home, in his sleep as he wanted.
Thankfully he responded well to pain killers.

Mum's friend however had several heart attacks and was revived each time...in the end she was like ''Please let me go''... She was a wonderful, feisty woman.

Everyone is different.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 11/03/2024 20:10

I think that a DNR sounds right, but your in-law was incredibly crass. It's not just about whether it's true of your relative, it's about how you're feeling about your relative's situation as well. Sorry, OP. Flowers

IloveAslan · 11/03/2024 20:12

I agree that it was insensitive to say out loud, but it would be what I was thinking.

Danfromdownunder · 11/03/2024 20:12

My mum has stage 4 cancer it’s everywhere. 2 years ago she fell into a coma and was resuscitated. The hospital pushed her into a DNR when she woke up and was in shock and really fragile. A couple of months after that she was able to join a new trial of an immunotherapy treatment. All her tumours have shrunk by more than 50%, she’s well and still lives happily alone at home. We are far too quick sometimes, sometimes, to just push people off the edge when it may not be their time. Be careful what you all wish for.

Ireallycantthinkofagoodone · 11/03/2024 20:14

If someone has a terminal diagnosis, the production of a DNAR is automatic. There would be one for hospital, one for hospice and one for home. Resuscitating a terminally ill person is pointless and cruel.
However, it’s horrifying that anyone would say so. Even medical staff would not be quite so blunt, though the reality is the same.

caringcarer · 11/03/2024 20:15

Cornishclio · 11/03/2024 16:54

Well if said family member has now signed a DNR they presumably feel the same.

Not a nice way of putting it but it depends very much on quality of life. If I was riddled with cancer with no hope of recovery and in pain and feeling awful I would rather die too I think rather than put my loved ones through a prolonged death gradually getting weaker and weaker.

I don't think I would voice that to a close relative though. It has to be down to the person who is ill to decide.

I saw my Mum died of pancreatic cancer and she could not eat for the last 3-4 weeks and only take a few sips of water in her last week. She wanted to die quickly rather than it keep dragging on but her body was too strong after a lifetime of taking care of herself. She had signed DNR but her heart was strong. I hated seeing her die such a horrible death and wished she would pass quickly. Your relative now agrees with your in-law.

Rosestulips · 11/03/2024 20:17

Awful and insensitive.

I am sorry you are going through this, I’ve recently lost my Dad to this horrendous disease and I was comforted to know that his passing was comfortable and peaceful. I wish you all the best and that your loved one is as pain free as possible in these last months

Gettingonmygoat · 11/03/2024 20:20

Blunt but true. Resuscitation is brutal and on someone that is terminally ill it is even worse. I see no point in pro longing the agony.

ArsMamatoria · 11/03/2024 20:20

Prior to the event, it wasn't true for your relative. Having experienced being resuscitated, they have changed their mind.

But whether or not it was a reasonable take, it was reprehensibly insensitive for your in-law to voice this opinion to you.

Your in-law would do well to learn some tact.

mydrivingisterrible · 11/03/2024 20:22

First comment nailed it

Gwenhwyfar · 11/03/2024 20:24

StrangeThread · 11/03/2024 16:54

They expressed their views insensitively and unkindly. It sounds extremely flippant and dismissive. Whatever the ‘good’ rationale for a DNR, your in law had no right talking so tactlessly to you. Could your husband raise it with them?

What's it got to do with her husband?

Also, why should the person who said no DNR know that it would upset OP? Many people with terminal illnesses have DNRs so I don't think it's a shocking thing to say at all.

Bumblebeeinatree · 11/03/2024 20:24

They cannot be forced to sign a DNA, get it reversed if that is not what they want.

ToWhitToWhoo · 11/03/2024 20:27

It was insensitive to say it in those words in the presence of the relatives, but I have thought it about several people, and it's how I'd feel about myself: better a quick death than a life of pain.

RogueFemale · 11/03/2024 20:28

It's a very insensitive comment by the family member, but the one with cancer has signed a DNR so they effectively agree.

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