Why is being successful frowned upon by most on Mumsnet

[Teenangels]

I have been/seen on some threads that people, are negative towards those that have become successful, children go to private school means the kids are entitled.

Why can't we celebrate that some people get lucky with an idea, take risks, work incredibly hard and pay their fair share on taxes.

I have seen people demand that the OP gives their profits to charity without even knowing what the OP gives to charity.

We need to celebrate all in society.

I think that's pretty rude @ligh . And very judgemental. @Teenangels has I guess worked hard, taken decisions and risks, and has achieved a degree of success for her family. If a person is clever and healthy, and doesn't need society's support to provide for their family, while paying taxes (probably quite a lot of tax) by doing so she's contributing to your safety net, possibly paying a second time for healthcare and education.

@ligh, you may be disabled or unfortunate or unlucky, or just wet. Teenangels could be the chair of a mega corporation or she could be a competent, cheerful suburban hairdresser that people enjoy going to: she hasn't said. But you have outed yourself as a curmudgeonly grump who despises anyone who has been more successful in life than you. Be happy.

I agree @OP. On a thread about careers for young people and whether they really need so many A's at A'level one poster commented that you only need those 'if you are the type that's greedy and goes after the high paying careers and that says a lot about you'. Couldnt believe what i was reading, as if aiming for a low paid salary is a virtue.

There are some people who think not earning to their ability makes them virtuous! We need everyone to aspire to earn as much as possible. High earners fund a better quality of life for everyone and will be the spur that demands higher eco-standards, better education and health -- because these things cost.

Teenangels could be the chair of a mega corporation or she could be a competent, cheerful suburban hairdresser that people enjoy going to: she hasn't said

I think the OP has said that her wealth has come about as a result of her husband’s business.

So has mine! But I was the person who supported us for the first three years of starting the business.

There's an old saying about starting a business: the first year you pay for it, the second year, it pays for itself, and the third year it pays for you. But that rule only works if you had a solid commercial proposition to start with.

It’s the “worked hard” bollocks that really triggers me.

I heard a long term unemployed (UMC) Financier on radio 4 the other day say he was so keen to work he’d ’even taken a job with the Royal Mail as a postman for 3 months’. He said it was the hardest he’d worked for the least money.

Working hard is just a way of life for the working classes. Why do the ‘successful’ always trot it out like a mantra?

You’re successful because you’re either privileged, connected, lucky or in very few cases extremely talented. But it’s usually privilege.

@Waitingfordoggo , if you are a good tradie, then I think that you can be very successful much quicker these days. A really good kitchen or bathroom fitter, who's pleasant to deal with, is going to get their details passed around the DC's schools faster than measles.

Oh yes, agree @Papyrophile- I keep trying to persuade my teens to look at getting into a trade!

I don't disagree @Screamingabdabz . You are successful because you are all the things you suggest, but only if you put in the effort. Your connections might get your foot in the door, but you are the person who has to kick it open. I don't think privilege has a huge role, or at least a much smaller one now than it did, because to succeed in a global talent market, the froth gets skimmed off very fast. You perform and deliver, or are chewed up and spat out.

That’s how all jobs work.

It’s just that if you’re privileged or connected your ‘effort’ pays six figures as opposed to minimum wage. And if you don’t make the effort it won’t make you homeless or mean you can’t feed your kids.

And very sadly for the chap on R4 (I heard the interview too) he's a victim of the promotion choke. No organisation can promote everyone, so there is a constant cull process.

That privilege doesnt just happen. People make choices - multiple choices that lead them or their descendants to be privileged. There are systemic inequalities but we can all agree there are many reasons we all make choices that may not lead to earning highly. For one, it may not even be a desire for some and that is ok. But it is not ok to put down people who value high earning roles and do what it takes. And yes, luck and good fortune plays a role but by nature the word 'luck' suggests they had nothing to do with it and as such could have occured for anyone. Truth is we have a very important role in determining our own destinies. We all do - and money is not the only marker of success but for those that value having a lot of money - I dont chastise them because I am not willing to take the risks/pay the price they paid! In most cases, I have a better quality of life and they get to buy the fine things in life - who won?

I didnt listen to the R4 - but if that was someone senior in finance - he was likely reasonably well-off by taking a risk to accept a finance role where we will know they hire and fire without mercy, versus a lesser paid public sector role. Unfortunately he is suffering the negative consequence of that choice now. But some would have berated him for his 'privilege' when times where good

No, I have my own career, and I am very proud of it and you Doggo would think its a very noble career. I would be classed as a high middle income.

My husband set up his business, I was the main breadwinner, did the books, invoicing, even went out to help him on a weekend, took loans out, had a few years of having no money, looking after the kids, working and doing everything at home, to support him doing a 90 hour week. At the start he was also working full time and gave that up to put his full energy into the business. All of this and have SEN children.

He would say that he could not have done what he has done without me.

I have also never mentioned what our wealth is, you are only assuming and making judgements.

My apologies @Teenangels, I thought you had said earlier in the thread that you didn’t earn very much- but perhaps I am mistaken, and I wasn’t implying you don’t work. I also realise you supported your H as he set up and ran his business, and that you have had all the home and family stuff to do as well. I did not say, and do not think, that you’re not a hard worker yourself!

I haven’t made any assumptions about your wealth!

I earned very well as a self-employed writer in a very specialist world, but not six figures 20 years ago. Honestly, at the time I was very very driven and hugely competitive (maybe not likeable) but if I was 40 again, I'd definitely be gunning to earn over £100k. The world has shifted too. Freelance writers now apparently earn less per day than I did in 1990.

I said that I was not earning over 100k, and it was above the national average.

I missed that post @Teenangels- I apologise.

Thank you.

Now that we've all kissed and made up.... I still think it's vital that people who are fierce and ambitious are not given a hard time for wanting to be successful. Before the life I have now took shape, I was on the fringes of the music industry. I don't know her personally but I watched Madonna rise though NY clubs to superstardom. Behind most overnight successes, there is a history of years of graft, and immense talent and luck, and you make a lot of the luck yourself. Through grafting harder and being better.

Your comment really made me laugh.......

I think that most believe that if you have become richer than others its all done through privilege and a leg up, what people forget that if you are rubbish at your job, no matter of who you are you will not get far.

Most of the posters would be shocked to know what I do for a living and it would blow their rhetoric.

I think it's a very dangerous mindset that most who are successful are so because of privilege, connections, and luck. That is a defeatist position that says, in that case, I can't do it because I don't have those things. Unless we are talking about landed gentry, i can assure most that those in very high paid careers worked exceptionally hard and nothing was handed to them on a plate. This can reassure those coming up that it can be done and give them hope.

As for luck, wasn't it someone famous who once said, 'I find the harder I worked, the luckier I got'? Even luck requires some effort from the individual, you have to be at the right place at the right time. If luck was so easy to come by, why hasn't everyone who wants it got it?

Lastly working hard, years ago I used to work as a GP facilitator and one of the key principles i was taught in training was that there's a difference between working hard and working smart. A lot of people conflate the two. If you've been working hard at the same thing for years and your financial situation hasn't changed seriously ask for advice from someone more senior what am I doing wrong and how i can move to the next level to something more rewarding? That could mean retraining, or a sideways step to gain experience that will complement what i already have. Don't just keep working doggedly for 40yrs and complaining about how hard you've worked.

Successful people don't just work hard. They also have a plan, they have short term and long-term plans. They have realistic goals & objectives that they set themselves and they are disciplined. They revisit those plans making sure they are on track to achieving them and tweak them as needed along the way. These are all ingredients to being head and shoulders above the rest. Just repeating, 'X also works hard' shows you are missing the point completely, they may be working hard but are they doing all the aforementioned?

This

You have said this…..

Why do you not think that people that have become wealthy have not worked hard…

Everyone I know in our “circle” have worked extremely hard.

*has