To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

She got a 9 in maths, but does she actually enjoy maths, enough to make it a career? There’s nothing wrong with marketing and foreign language.

OP I come from a similar background - school scoffed at any subject that had "studies" in the title, and my parents were horrified when I chose not to read Medicine. (If relevant I did a degree in genetics and then became a solicitor - I went to Oxbridge for my Masters so not all was lost!) Support your DD in getting the best A levels she can (those predictions are great) and then in exploring choices over the gap year. There is no point in her committing to an expensive degree unless she is sure and a year will make a big difference. FWIW a modern languages degree will stand her in good stead whatever she wants to do, and don't scoff at marketing - there are well paid and fulfilling roles outside of traditional vocational roles. It is ok not to know what one wants to do at 17.

I did a gap year, 4 year languages degree and then a PG marketing course before starting my career!

I didn't know what I wanted to do at that age either but have had a fantastic career in international marketing so far (now in my forties). I've travelled all over the world with my work and really enjoy my job.

I was also naturally very good at maths and have wondered at times whether I could be earning more if I'd pursued something like finance or software dev, but ultimately I'm on a decent salary and not sure I would have been as happy if I'd taken that path.

Not sure if that helps but just wanted to reassure you that her current plans aren't completely crazy.

Yes yabu. You are wanting her to be and do what you think she should. Not what she wants to do.

You are putting expectations into her because of your profession. She isn’t an extension of you. She is a her own person.

I am in a professional job. Dd flip flopped through year 12. And at one point wasn’t going to uni at all. I supported her. And started working with her in looking at what to do instead. Then she was applying her taking a gap year. I supported her. Then she decided she was going. She is now in her second year of a law degree. She is very happy because she was given room and support to make her own choices. She is her own person and if she decided it wasn’t for her, she had to be allowed to make that choice.

At no point was I disappointed. She is extremely intelligent. But she had to make the choice for herself. She had to choose her own path. She has 4 best friends and only 2 of them went to university that year. The other 3 went the year after. All happy, all heading for professional roles.

a foreign language degree is useful in so many jobs. It’s not something to be disappointed by. Her not choosing certain jobs isn’t a reason to be disappointed. She is finding her own way.

There is no evidence in your OP that she is ‘throwing it all away’. She literally has a plan.

My mum was like you, kept saying things like, ‘if you don’t go to uni now you’ll never go’. I went straight to Oxford from sixth form and got a 2:2 in a subject I didn’t enjoy. I was very immature and needed time to work it out for myself, which I didn’t get. YEARS later I went back to uni remotely and did an MSc in a subject I did enjoy (I DREADED telling my mum; by that time I’d been teaching for 15 years and needed to go part time, which she didn’t agree with, either).

Children need to find intrinsic motivation/their own path in life, please respect your DD’s very sensible plans otherwise you risk damaging your relationship.

It doesn’t sound in the least bit chaotic to me.

Marketing is a great career with interesting prospects and possibilities. How is she limiting herself by wanting to travel and see the world?

She’s clever, she has a sense of adventure, she’ll be all right without you imposing your narrow minded expectations on her. It’s your outlook that sounds limiting to me!

I agree with @TempleOfBloom and others. She has a plan.,, even if it is not as fixed and rigid as you would like. Being flexible at her age is totally fine.

It seems fine to me. She is obviously quite confident and understands that she needs more time to decide on her major. Her plan seems quite detailed to me.
My DD went straight to uni but switched around her subjects a few times. She is nearly finished now and has a graduate job, but I get the feeling that if she was to start again at 18, she would pick a different major.

I agree with PPs. She seems to be really considering what she wants.

Languages are awesome skills to have. Especially when combined with a general high level in maths and other subjects.

When she does go to Uni - how about a Scottish one where she can take three subjects in first and second year and then specialise in her favourite? I did this as I was picking up a subject I didn't do in 6th form. I ended up not taking it to honours level but it was a great way to try without committing fully.

Yes yabu.

if she does not have a defined career plan she is better taking the break now, figuring it out and after as long as it takes then going to uni.

think about it, you lean on her to go, she does a subject without thinking it through, then in 10 years time she’s in a job she hates, does know what she wants to do, but can’t go back to uni because she has a shedful of student debt and can’t afford another 3 or 4 years.

that was me btw. I was also fed the lines I’d be wasting my intelligence not going to uni, if I didn’t go after a’levels I’d get a job, be used to the money and never want to go back to being a skint student.

so I did “a” degree. I switched after my first year and did actually love the subject. But 5 years down the line with a bit more world experience and knowledge of what jobs are out there, I found the career I wanted, but needed another degree and simply couldn’t afford the time or the fees.

when you’re 18 you don’t know what jobs are out there. Your kids will be a step ahead of me as I was the first to go to uni, and honestly thought you picked a subject like you did a’levels. I had no clue that some degrees directly qualified you for a job- pharmacy, architecture etc.

it was only once I’d been working in a field I enjoyed I saw the full range of jobs and careers.

add to that I’m now in a field I thought about when I was 18, but was persuaded out of because it didn’t need a degree and I was “too clever”. My peers who started at 18 are now retiring on final salary pensions in 5 years, while I have another 18 to go as a) I missed the final salary pension boat and b) I’m 7 years behind in pension payments as I was at uni.

another field I was interested in and persuaded out of was sports. 30’years ago I was told “there’s no money in sport”, most coaches were parent volunteers, and there was no “science”. Obviously since then the field has exploded and people are making a lot of money now.

sorry that got long. My point is uni is not the only career option, and even if it is it’s best not to rush into the wrong degree. Take some time, get a job, see what’s out there.

YABVU. She does have a plan, it just isn’t what you envisaged.

As well as Scots uni’s, which I agree are much better for ditherers as it’s much broader and more scope to change in the first 2 years, she could also look at US uni’s. They are also very broad at undergraduate level.

if she’s as academic as she sounds Ivy leagues are needs based, so if she gets in fees will be dependent on your income. I think it starts at £0 if your income is under 50k, and increases proportionally. Other uni’s have academic scholarships. Mine is going on a sports scholarship, so will come out of the 4 years debt free. Then if they do ever decide on a vocational degree they have no debt and still qualify for UK student loans.

Id agree better to take a year, as long as it includes a period of full time work and not spending money you've not earned, it's enormously educational to see what full time work is like (especially if you don't like the work much) and the value of money. And seeing the world and what's out there. I wanted a year out and parents advised against. I think if I'd taken it I might have become a dr or hcp instead of doing my office based degree as my medical interest arose too late out of nowhere. Give her a year and you might be pleasantly surprised what you get back.

Given she doesn’t really know what she wants to do I think she’s being incredibly sensible having a gap year. I would help ensure she doesn’t waste it though. Work with her to find a job/do some travelling that might help inform her thinking, She’ll get there.

DS2 is very academic. He did maths, chemistry and geography at A level and intended to do geography at Uni. During 6th form he changed his mind and decided he really wanted to do music instead. So he decided to take a gap year, did music A level independently, applied to Oxford and got a place.
It's his life, it was his choice, I don't see this as 'chaotic' at all, I see it as maturing and realising what he wanted to do.
OP - support your DD in what she wants, not what you want.

I think you are being a little unfair to your DD. I couldnt imagine my DM saying she was not supportive of my A Level choices. So what if she got a 9 in GCSE maths? Lots of kids get 8s or 9s in subjects that they drop because you cant take all of them forward. Especially if she doesnt thrive at it.

I did a similar set of A Levels. Went on to do a languages degree in a language that id only taken to GCSE level (wasnt offered at A Level anywhere locally). I did a 2.5yr "gap year" after uni working overseas in that language. I came back more mature, with a much better sense of what i wanted to do with my life and better able to achieve it (for info, joined the civil service, now a senior manager, in no way has my very loose plan at 18 held me back).

Of course if you compare her to a medicine or law career path, it wont seem as defined, but if those are not careers she wants to do, then there is no point pushing it. Let her take time to figure out her own plan and go from there. If she's as bright as you say she is, she'll come to her own conclusions in time.

You have a long time to talk her out of the masters which she will not need. She'd be better off doing a couple of years in industry and an mba to be honest.

If she wants a gap yah I'd say fine but she needs x months paid work.
Same with the 4 year degree, some paid work. And ideally work experience...

I'm 40... I worked in advertising in 20s and 30s (as an fyi i looked at client side eg marketing roles but advertising pays better by a fair whack)
I was approached by the client about a role, European marketing and procurement Lead at a blue chip fmcg... it paid 70k which was 20k less than i was earning as a "director"

I was making about 135k pa when i left the sector aged 35 which i thought was decent...i think i make more than a lot of our friends except the ones at JP etc.

How strange - your DD literally has a plan? It’s just not the plan you want her to have.

She sounds more switched on than many 17yo IMO. My DDs didn’t have a clue about their careers at that age/stage. Incidentally they both studied modern languages and have now decided to become lawyers, and have got training contracts / vac schemes at City law firms. So they have studied what they wanted to and are now on a ‘professional’ route, but I would have equally been happy if they’d chosen something else instead.

Please support your daughter, she sounds fab. And I hope you don’t make it clear that you prefer your son’s plans - that would really alienate her.

Your last paragraph sounds like a sufficiently detailed plan to me! 😆when looking at “hard” science students at Uni (I was social sciences myself), I always had this mixture of envy at them for not needing to dread or stress about where they’d end up career wide after Uni, but at the same time thinking did they not get bored… I had two gap years and always went with career opportunities as they arose or whatever I fancied at the time, including abroad, and went on to get to a v competitive grad scheme and built a career from there. It might have looked chaotic to others but it’s important to do what you like, and to refuse things you don’t like, and it’ll pan out naturally. For this kind of ‘floating around’ becoming success, she does need to be very good at it whatever she decides to do at any given time. Also isn’t the point of languages that you might be able to speak them, (horror), abroad?

YABU. Languages are a great choice and if she does business/marketing too its a double whammy.

I studied languages and ended up in marketing/ business development. First few years of my career I felt a bit lost as hadn't had a plan but now found a great role and am very happy.

I've travelled a lot, sometimes used languages at work and it's such an asset to speak them.

I also got A* in maths back at school but I didn't want to do maths or science subject. I'd have hated it if my parents had dictated or pressured me to do certain subjects or made me feel bad for following my passion instead of maths.

Don't normally post but I swear I got have written your post 10 years ago.

My DS is 30 now and married, expecting his first baby, owns a nice 3 bed and is a teacher. Very settled life but barely lived away from home, holidays to Greece, Portugal and Spain almost exclusively (odd stag do elsewhere). He's happy and I'm very proud of him.

DD is 28, she moved to London, works in International marketing, has a much more exciting life. She had a gap year straight out of school, went some amazing places. Studied MFL and did her year abroad split between Austria and Estonia.
Whilst at uni she had been working and had managed to save and decided to take another gap year (she was 23 by this point), came back did a masters in international
marketing (she now deems this unnecessary).
She's now making 60k 3 years in and I'd deem that pretty damn good.
I'm proud of both of my kids but DD definitely has the more exciting stories and has seen a lot more (she also didn't really have any of this planned at 17!!).
I think your DD will be just fine, let her live and have fun. DD always loves to tell everyone she is glad she took 7 years to finish education, she calls in the scenic route and feels like her life is better for it. In her words I will work for 40 years ... what's an extra 3/4 having fun!

I'm not sure how to approach this

By leaving her to live her life the way she wants to maybe

I relate to this so much. I did like the subject I studied, but I would have really benefited from a gap year because I had such limited life experience as an adult. Never worked, couldn’t drive, went to the same school K-12 (US). My parents said the same thing - if you don’t start right away, you’ll get side-tracked and never go, blah blah blah. I’d never spent much time around anyone from a drastically different background than mine; the culture shock when I started college was really dramatic because I was so afraid of saying the wrong thing to people.

The school clearly isn't much of a 'good local indie' if the career advisors won't help her.

You sound an utter snob. Let your daughter do as she pleases

Also while I note that DD loves her life and is glad she took her time to get to where she is.

DS is an English teacher. He has always said that while he is proud of his sister he couldn't have done it. He knew from Y10 he wanted to be a geography teacher and liked how predictable of a path it would be. He went to uni an hour or so from home while DD ran off to London. He now lives 10 minutes down the road.
They both envy one and other. DS has stability, owns a home, has consistency and sometimes DD admits that she envies that. DS also admits that he is often envious that DD has lived more. She has crazy stories about a family in Vietnam inviting her and her friends out for dinner as "British accents are so funny" and learning about their life, and being dragged up a big hill in Indonesia in a wheelie bin!! He says sometimes he wishes he had such good stories to tell.

There is no one right path, always pros and cons - just roll with it!