To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

I am a sixth form teacher by the way. Tbh I worry more about the ones blindly going down some kind of professional track without having given much thought to what they'd actually enjoy. I've got friends my age (50s) stuck in well paying professional work they hate, too.

The thing that I suspect there isn’t a plan for is how it will all be funded. It sounds like an amazing few years, assuming it won’t all be funded by the bank of mum and dad. There are lots of opportunities in Marketing. Could she do a marketing with a foreign language joint honours? Marketing is very business-based so if she changed her mind that wouldn’t be the end of the world.

It doesn’t sound chaotic or like she’s throwing things away. You don’t have to be a doctor, solicitor or banker to have a fulfilling career. Let her do what makes her happy. she sounds like she’s got her head screwed on.

This is my experience amongst Lawyers too. Once they get to a certain level they can’t imagine their children doing anything other than Law, Medicine or Accounting.

FFS, you need to back off. She’s 18. Why on earth are you expecting either of them to know what they want to do. I’m 33 and I’ve never had a plan, and I have a great job. But I also had fun; travelled, explored different things. And my parents never put any pressure on me or asked my plans-it was the best thing ever. Leave them alone, or they will massively resent you. Just because you’ve had a planned career, that isn’t the case for everyone. Maybe they want to actually enjoy their lives and explore

Your OP is unreasonable. Her plans don’t sound at all ‘chaotic’ or not ‘together’. They sound fine.

there are lots of good course options in what DD thinks she might study, including undergrad degrees business and languages with a year at an overseas business school. if she’s unsure now she can decide after she has her results and taken some time.

Your DS’ plan is fine, as it goes, but isn’t somehow better than DD’s. history isn’t necessarily a good degree with respect to employment stats and law can be long hours, poor working conditions etc and Is liable to automation in the near future.

She has to make her own choices. Maybe she feels pressurised knowing you want a "big career" for her. She is 17 with good GCSEs and will have A levels before long. Those will be the gateway to many possibilities, but motivation, personality and attitude will play the biggest part in her life choices. Why should she know what to do with her life now, it's all theoretical at that age? Some teens have a clear ambition, most don't. They go through life, making the choice that seems right at the time and see where that takes them. You need to be open minded and to listen to what she wants and where she is with herself. More careers advice won't help if she doesn't know what she wants to do, nor will pressure from you. Try thinking of alternative situations of where she could be to help you understand she is absolutely fine (poor mental health, having an unplanned baby, on drugs, failed GCSEs, run off with older boyfriend)!

I suggest you let her chose her own path...which doesn't sound chaotic at all. Why is she only making the best of herself if she goes straight into a clear career path like law or medicine? Have you ever thought what opportunities and experiences you might have missed out on with your clearly defined career path?

Poor kid. You sound very pushy and controlling.

YABU. When I read your op I thought oh DC1 has it all sorted, I wonder what DC2 is up to.

Then I discovered it was actually DC1 you are worried about!

Definitely YABU. Being a doctor in the UK is utter rubbish (not fantastic pay for the responsibility and an increasingly unmanageable workload, disrespectful general public) these days so you must be glad she's not following that path. I'm sure marketing will be a far more enjoyable and lucrative job than the drudgery of the NHS. Sounds like your DD has a good plan that will make her happy and ability in languages will always be sought after.

Sounds like she has a reasonable plan already.

I'd encourage her to still pick a main and back up uni offer if they can be done on deferred entry just so she has a back up plan.

I think it's amazing she wants to take a year out and finance that herself.

My DF - a chemistry lecturer- still expresses disappointment that I did Business Studies at uni ( in my 50s with a well paid job) and is now doing the same about DS planning to study the same. It just makes me feel irritated that he still doesn't see me as my own person with my own aspirations. Don't be my DF, support your DD she really doesn't need to have her future career sorted out at this age.

Agree with PP about the money. sounds like you can afford and to contribute to costs for a degree, but don’t want to fund travel, or a master’s which if so is fair enough IMO! Suggests making clear what you’re able and willing to pay for.

my parents were in a tight budget and did this. £X per year for living costs for up to 4 years if in education. No funds towards travel, extra costs of living/working abroad or if not studying.

A gap year sounds like a sensible idea to me. Would you rather she build up a lot of debt (or you pay a lot of money) for a course she’s not 100% and she drops out. A gap year can be brilliant for seeing things a bit clearer. My DD is very academic but doesn’t know what she wants to do. She’s doing GCSE’s this year so a couple more years to go but I would support a gap year for her if she chooses. We have to remember as parents we are there to offer advice and guide as our kids become adults. It might not be our choice, but it’s not our choice to make, it’s theirs.

The fact that you and your DH are doctors is completely irrelevant in this context. She's not an extension of you.

I'd let her go off and travel and meet different people, maybe get a job. It'll help her figure out her path. Experiencing life outside education, might just give her that focus on what she really does and doesn't want.

There is a plan just not your one

They are not you

You sound very narrow in your outlook and judgmental. I’m a teacher and see this pressure from parents a lot. Her A level choices are solid and she doesn’t need to have her entire life mapped out at 17. It’s her life .

My parents were both doctors too. Luckily they didn't believe in putting pressure on us or dictating our choices in life. The only one (not me) who chose an actual profession at 18 never really enjoyed it and now has a lowly paid job and focuses on other aspects of their life. Another was 30 before they worked out what they wanted to do. I have a profession I love and find satisfying.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

It actually seems quite smart and self-challenging, as long as she has the time and resources to dedicate to it (eg doesn’t find herself with caring responsibilities that require working straight out of school, or draining family savings to achieve it).

Brains are not fully mature by age 18 or 21. Following the “clear path” that a young adult has come up with during their school years, plus family input / peer pressure, can lead to dissatisfaction a few years down the line when they realise it maybe wasn’t what they really wanted to do, but rather what they thought they should do.

I’d say it’s your son who is limiting himself more, whereas your daughter is able to see that taking advantage of a varied range of opportunities in her young years, is the best gift she could give herself for now. Independence, resilience, experiencing other cultures and studying multiple interests - what’s not to applaud about her plan? I’d much rather my child started making job choices at 24/25 than at 21, fresh out of uni and having had less chance to grow and mature emotionally.

Even more shocking is how you talk about her love of languages and artistic subjects. We need people to study those. We need people in society who still value creativity, who desire to be original and embrace open-mindedness, who hopefully won’t put down their kids if they want to do anything but law, finance or sciences.

I'm going to defend the Op a bit here. When you go into Medicine at 18, your life is essentially mapped out. Sure there are twists and turns along the way. You may end up in a random placement somewhere you aren't keen on, but when we qualified, you worked 5-10 brutal years as an SHO/Reg then became a Consultant. Her husband also only knows Medicine.

DD has had a lovely middle class life so far. Who would want their child to have a less good life than them?

For what it's worth, I don't think taking a gap year is a bad thing, provided she spends some time working full time. One of my friends did Marketing and he has done brilliantly. Have a chat with her and where her plans lie.

(I also won't be surprised if DS decides not to do Law at the end of his UG)

Math is important in Marketing too. You get to do a lot of analytics or at least understand how it works.

She does have a plan!

It is not that hard to get a 9 in GCSE Maths. A level is a different story entirely and kids can really struggle.

And maybe she is fed up of being compared to her twin and wants a completely different life and to be in a different year. I was fed up of being compared to my twin and being in a different academic year would be a great way to stop this.

A gap year is perfectly fine. Maybe she isn't 100% sure of what she wants to do and doesn't want to leap straight into a degree that won't work for her. She sounds fine - just because she isn't doing what you did doesn't make her a waster! My son did gap year, graphic design and washed into a fantastic job with Sky sports.

I know a very bright girl who decided not to do A levels and instead did a level 3 apprenticeship in early years. Her teachers kept telling her she was wasting her abilities, but it’s what she wanted to do. Luckily her parents are more of the whatever makes you happy sort of people. She’s got her whole life ahead of her and may go on to uni eventually, but for now she’s doing what makes her happy.

how would you feel OP if your dd really didn’t want to go to uni and decided to do an apprenticeship, leading to a career that doesn’t pay well, but made her really happy and she loved? Just wondering.