To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

You sound very controlling, be careful you don't put her off altogether

OP, I understand it’s difficult but she’s telling you she needs time to work out what she wants to do- let her get on with it. My three have all chosen very different paths but have forged their own way and are happy and successful. If she gets her A levels that’s great- she can easily go back to a degree whenever she wants. But I wouldn’t push her down a degree path unless she really wants it- all that debt for nothing, and she might resent you for it. Sometimes you have to learn what you don’t want to discover what you do! Travelling might help focus her mind. My daughter got a 2:1 in English from Manchester and, without any idea what she wanted to do, started on a path to a career as a senior business analyst and is earning very well with even better prospects to come. More importantly she absolutely loves it and is well respected. So sit on your hands and trust that she’ll make the right decisions- it sounds like you’ve put in good foundations.

My daughter got 8/9s at GCSE and A* at Alevels. She didn't go to university at all! We agreed to taking a year out, but she found a job she loves at a junior level. She's now doing the job many of the people in her company have studied at university for but she has none of the debt.
There are many different ways to go in life and there is plenty of time for studies when she knows what she wants to do.
She now earns more than most of her friends too.

A word of caution on this approach (which definitely won't apply to everyone).
DS started a degree apprenticeship, dropped out, but the company facilitating his apprenticeship asked him to stay, and take a full time job.

This was a few years ago, he's now regretting staying and dropping out of his degree. Whilst he is progressing well where he is and doing a role that would usually be given to a masters grad, it's really hard for him to leave. He finds his application gets thrown out in round 1 automated screening a lot as he doesn't have a degree. He can't really move to a different section of the same industry easy and now feels trapped.
He's got in touch with a recruiter who will hopefully help, but for DS definitely a bit of a curse packaged as a gift!

OU?

my dad went into “a trade” as was common in the 60’s, but went into management. He hit the “no degree” ceiling and bypassed it with an Ou degree.

out of interest, was it the degree he hated? He must have liked the apprenticeship to stay on for a job, but it seems a bit mad to half drop out?

Just support her in the path SHE has chosen, and what SHE wants to do.

Is this more a bragging post than an AIBU??

yes your twins are VERY successful 👏🏻.

you already know they know how to make the right decision!

She's 18, she's not throwing it all away. She's got, hopefully, a lifetime in front of her. She'll find her own way in her own time. The more you push, the more she'll pull away. She's clever. She'll make mistakes and learn from them, like we all do. You just have to be there, whatever she chooses to do.

Let her live. A life all plotted out at 17 doesn’t sound chaotic to me, it sounds like a strait jacket!

She’s smart, it will fall into place. Trust her to find her way, sometimes that takes a bit of breathing space.

YABU

she is 18. She has her whole life to study and work. She has the means so she should go and explore and enjoy herself.

Unless you have some compelling vocation, 17 is still very young to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life. A year out getting some life experience may help her to decide on her direction - better a year out now than getting 2 years into a Uni course and her deciding that she's made a terrible mistake.

Sorry I should have been clearer, she is still training on the job but not doing a degree apprenticeship. She would like to at some point but wanted to be clear the field she was in before committing. She works in IT so plenty of other training g other than degree.

One of the most successful ladies I know is Chief Marketing Officer of a FTSE 100 company, who wound up in UK after growing travelling from her native Oz on a gap year! Marketing is a very legitimate career and you should encourage your daughter to take her time and do a degree she is passionate and interested in. Plenty of time to specialise later

My son went to uni in the USA and it was brilliant. He didn’t really know what he wanted to do but with the American curriculum being so much broader he really grew. He majored in sports and entertainment business management, and after a couple of internships, he decided to go to law school. He qualified as a lawyer and met his wife at uni in Miami. They now have their own law firm and are doing really well for themselves. Let her grow, she’ll figure it out.

In my own experience (3 now early 20s) the only way in the end has been to support each one on their chosen journey and help them make the most of it. Quite a rollercoaster but all three seem to be doing reasonably well on a good path. I don't think trying to push them in directions different to those they ultimately chose would have worked although sometimes I was tearing my hair out!! If I had to do it all again with the benefit of hindsight I would have just supported them 100% in what they wanted to do with no attempt to influence them (tried and failed).

You honestly sound awful. She sounds like a well rounded, independent girl who wants to experience life rather than be pushed down a route she doesn’t want to take just because mummy darling thinks it’s the right thing to do. I hope she gets her way.

I had this conversation with my DH about how I felt about my A-levels yesterday!

I think your DD has a talent for languages that she wants to use. She's clearly not completely comfortable with her choices for September. Don't confuse intelligence with a need for a high-level career. To do that is to do a great number of people an injustice. Everyone thought I should study Law and I ended up doing Philosophy and Ethics at Uni so I could choose what to do next. I wanted to do English. I ended up doing a MLit instead which I adored but it was ten years later!

Let your DD make her path and don't compare her with DS. And don't EVER suggest someone is wasting talent or intelligence. I got the highest possible Grade for Maths too but I'd have hated a career using it.

That 9 in maths isn’t going to go away. She can make use of it any time she wants, or not at all.

If it were my DD, I'd encourage her to follow her heart. Directly post A-levels is the ideal time for a gap year to see the world, experience different ways of life and mature before she settles down to study. An undergrad course with a year abroad is a great way for her to broaden her experiences too. And so what if she pursues a Masters in a different field? Surely that will prove she's adaptable?

It's natural, having twins, that you'll compare one with the other, but I don't believe there's one 'right' way of doing things. You say both you and your OH followed clear paths to become doctors. I don't know you so this isn't a personal criticism but I've encountered many doctors while dealing with my DD's multiple medical conditions who seem to lack people skills and empathy - traits often absent when one's primary focus is academic qualifications and following a narrow trajectory from A to B.

There are many ways to get independent careers advice for free or privately (usually only for a small fee)

Start with the National Careers service - www.cxk.org

or The Prince’s Trust - https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/how-we-can-help/who-else/employment/careers-advice

Good luck

I was just like your daughter, I got stellar marks in Maths, English, French and Latin (!) at school and the teachers (as well as my parents) were constantly putting me under pressure about my university choices.

In the end I took a gap year and then studied philosophy/French linguistics. My mother is a doctor and my father a scientist, my brothers followed suit - one doctor, one a scientist working in a particularly lucrative field.

My family always seemed so unimpressed by my choices but I’ve had such a fabulous career in publishing/marketing. I’ve traveled much more, met so many interesting people, lived abroad and had many more opportunities than either of my brothers.

No matter how well planned a path is from school to adulthood and career, life can often throw in curved balls. I was going to be a professional Musician but a serious health diagnosis at 17 quashed all that. I ended up doing a design degree in my 30s and now work in politics in a well paid position. I play music still as a hobby.

My DFs advice was to finish whatever course I started as you get no credit for dropping out. My career has hardly been ‘planned’ or conventional but by taking positions that interested me, I developed my career because I enjoyed the roles, got noticed as I was good to work with (clients and colleagues) and it was this that led to career progression and rewards.

Your DD sounds well grounded and I’m sure will do well. Let her follow her own path.

I really can't see the problem here. DD has super A-levels, she is taking a gap year, will then do a language degree at a Russell Group university and then pursue a career - possibly in marketing. How on earth is this being lost?

I assume she can defer her degree offer. I would encourage her to look at volunteering in Germany for the gap year. It's called FSJ and if she google's there are lots of volunteer opportunities. Some come with accommodation and all pay pocket money. I also recommend checking out the careers fairs the Goethe-institut organises. Lots of career opportunities with German companies, too.

I see this narrow minded British middle class thing a lot. Anything which isn't math, science, finance, medicine or law is not worth pursuing and somehow inferior to anything else.

What about a sense of purpose and finding a career you enjoy. Surely that's what we should encourage our kids to find - and shock horror they might not be crystal clear about this yet at 17/18 years of age.

If you can't help your daughter constructively you need to step right back and tone down the pressure.

How many lawyers and bankers does this country need?

YABU. She isn't limiting herself at all, actually, the opposite. My DD is studying languages, and has loads of options. She is friends with someone who studied Spanish and now works in sales in finance. She could still end up doing law, or teaching, marketing or any other wealth of things and being bi-lingual is always a positive.

DD did a gap year too, she did an internship in Spain (Madrid) for 4 months in PR. Now she is in Peru doing her year abroad (she did the first half in Salzburg). Where she has a marketing internship for 2.5 days a week and 1.5 days in uni. The uni is great and she was allowed to pick from a variety of classes in various fields. She's mixed in with local students and loving it.

Your DD sounds more interesting and independent than your DS. I'd worry he will end up hating what he does as it's not for the love of it but for the prestige and money!

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