To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

I wasted years of my life qualifying to be a solicitor. Then I finally admitted to myself (and everyone else) that I hated my career. So many people I worked with felt trapped in legal jobs that made them miserable. Some stayed in the profession but will warn others not to do it. The rest of us left and also warn people not to do it. Competing just to get a training contract makes it feel like a big honour, then they bleed you dry.

I find it amusing that your DD is the one you're worried about.

I know two girls who went to Oxbridge on the education treadmill, they got good degrees. But then a few years later had to requalify in the area they were really interested in.
I would be pleased for her to do a gap year and really think about what she wants to do.
I would be more worried about her brother who has such a conventional course mapped out - has he really explored his options?

She’s only “limiting herself” in your mind according to what you think she should be going.

and intelligence isn’t “wasted” if you don’t use it vocationally.

If you're honest, do you want her to go into a recognised, high status career like medicine, law or finance, and because she's not inclined that way, you don't approve? Because although we don't know the background, your DD's plan doesn't seem any less solid than your DS's.

Languages is an excellent, versatile degree that can lead to so many different careers. I'm baffled that people think it's "limiting". Would be an ideal choice for the civil service/diplomatic service/intelligence, if she decides marketing isn't for her.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

I am not getting this OP? How is this chaotic or not a clear plan? She has laid out clearly what she wants to do. It just isn't medicine or law. She isn't you or her sister. She still has a plan.

I got A*s in my maths and physics GCSEs and I hated them, no way was I going to study them for any longer than I had to as it would have made me miserable.

YABU

I am a city lawyer. I became a lawyer because when I was a teenager, I was told that my skills/personality type would make me a good lawyer and it was a great/prestigious career. That decision was made when I was far too young - I went to university (studied law, oh the prestige) got a training contract at a big firm, qualified and at the age of 28 realised I was bloody miserable. I moved in house which is slightly better but several years later, I am not doing something I am passionate about. If I had my time again, I wish I had taken more time to consider other options. I am very envious of the people I knew at school and university that are now pursuing careers they are more passionate about. Honestly, I think a lot of lawyers feel like this.
At some point I am hoping to leave law altogether although I’m not sure what I will do - I’m basically “directionless” and “lost” now, having pursued my “great and prestigious career”. And I am decades older than your DD.
your DD sounds like she has her head screwed on and you’re being very harsh on her. If I had my time again, I think I would also have taken time to travel and pursue studies in something I genuinely knew I enjoyed. You should be proud of her for not wanting to be pushed into anything and for prioritising herself and her own desires.

I understand your concerns, but maybe 17 is a good time to be a bit chaotic. Being rigidly tied to a path that may not be the right one will have huge consequences, a gap year sounds sensible and may clarify her plans. Young people now will probably have to work till they’re 70. There is plenty of time, don’t panic. She will probably end up with a really interesting career.

Encourage her to take the gap year. It'll give her a chance to figure out what she wants to do.

I was the same at her age. I wanted a gap year and my parents didn't allow it. My French teacher actually told them if they allowed me a gap year, I probably wouldn't go to uni after. So off to uni I went. Did Business/Management and French at Manchester.

Well I wasted 2/3 years pissing it all away. Had a fantastic social life. Academia was far from my mind. Went to France for the 3rd year. Spent a week there, hated it, came back, dropped out of uni, changed uni, changed course and moved back home.

I strongly believe if I'd had the gap year I'd have figured out what I wanted to do and not wasted 3 years and ALOT of money.

Encourage the gap year and give her some space to figure things out. Be supportive, even if she isn't making the choices you want her to make.

Just because she's doing more artistic subjects for A Level rather than scientific needed for medicine does not mean to say she is chaotic or has no plan.
I did similar subjects with a similar degree to what she's intending and I've done pretty well out of it. Let her do what she enjoys and is good at. It's her life.

Have pm Ed you

Why can't you back off and let her figure this out for herself? She knows it's chaotic, that's why she wants some time out to really think about what she studies. You should be saying "well done DD, that's really mature, I'll support you and if you need to talk it through, I'm here".

Basically stop being so pushy.

DD seems to have a great plan. She will gain so much from life experience if she takes a break before uni. Academia does not need to be a simple linear progression.

Exactly this. Her plan is not your plan.

Not everyone has a plan! For a lot of people, the plan changes. I know very few people now in my 40s who stuck to their original plan at 17. I also know plenty of people who successfully worked their way up from nothing with no degree and one without any high school education whatsoever!

Let her find her own way.

Exactly this. As a scientist myself, red brick masters etc, I’d say foreign language degrees are infinitely harder!

Yabu. Talk it over with her but it’s her choice.

Her plan really doesn’t seem to be chaotic- which bit is chaotic?

It’s ALL a matter of what makes her happy.
My DD got her degree, took a BEd to teach, but her first year was a disaster and she has never wanted to teach since. DS and I have always been fairly ambitious but it hasn’t led to the contentment DD has with her P/T admin job, electrician DH, and three children. She has a difficult life - daughter neurodiverse with elements of ADHD/autism/ODD and almost daily storms, twin boys one of which has CP, yet she remains cheerful with her modest house, car and holidays. DS decided to work in finance, (he has been relatively successful but hates it) despite degree in Product Innovation, Design and Marketing which he enjoyed. He has a big house big car and lavish holidays, yet he is permanently angry, discontented and seems always to be in too much debt to change track. Please don’t feel that your DD’s ideas are somehow ’second rate’ to a high powered career.

Sge sounds like shes actually got it more together than her twin

She isnt happy with YOUR choices. Abd wants to figure out what she really wants to do snd enjoy

Happiness is the most important thing

City lawyer here and senior enough to be involved in recruitment. Almost all applicants have decent academics, often Oxbridge. What makes a decent grad, is life experience. Not the fact Mummy or Daddy directed their careers. Our recruitment is blind in terms of the information we know about during interviews / screening. We know if they got great results from a failing school and we know about their degree classification. We don't know where it's from. We also see their personal statement - where they have travelled, experiences they have and what drives them. If they aren't genuinely interestED as well as interestING, they don't stand a chance.

Because of the fact we know about their degree classification, it's better to do a degree in a subject they will get a first in than be part of the massive amount of people who get 2:1s. Let her do a subject that is interesting to her. Everyone has Grade 9s and A*s across all subjects to be honest so a Grade 9 in maths isn't stand out as an excellent mathematician. It just means she went to a school who coached their kids to answer GCSE papers by rote.

I was pushed into pure sciences, got an oxbridge science degree, worked in a science job for a decade and have spent the last decade retraining in medicine.

I have noticed a very strong tendency amongst medics to consider only medicine, law, possibly engineering, banking as acceptable future outcomes for their kids and wonder how many of them will be miserable in the path their parents approve of. It smacks of snobbery and utter lack of imagination. There are so many possible futures and taking your time, living a bit and finding out who you are is time extremely well spent.

My own younger DD sounds exactly like yours - has chosen humanities despite a scientists brain cos she loves them. She's off to Scotland to study as degrees are more flexible and best of luck to her. She knows she will have to find her own niche to make a living, but she is intelligent, resourceful and happy. She will be fine.

As will your DD, given time and space to choose her own life.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

What on earth is chaotic about this? It’s a pretty clear plan. It sounds like you have an extremely limited idea of what a career involves and can’t see beyond your own experience and preferences.

I wish that more of my students would take a gap year. At least half of them lack the maturity and independence to benefit from being at university, and many of them actively struggle because of this. She’ll be in a much better position to cope with being away from home, and therefore engage with her studies, after taking a year to work and travel.

If her interests are languages, marketing, business, then she sounds perfectly sensible - she needs to be out there, using her people skills, building her language skills in context, seeing how different places work etc.

There is no standard career path you can plan for with things like that, but contacts are important.

My (very sensible) best friend was similar, emigrated and is now a freelance interpreter, fluent in several languages.

If you have brought her up well, trust her and don't compare her to her brother!

I admittedly haven’t read all replies on here, but as a 31 year old solicitor (qualified 5 years ago) yabu.

I got 6 A star and 7A at GCSE and an A star and 2As in my A levels. I did Law and French at uni so my year abroad was built in (couldn’t do a gap year as it was the year before fees for uni jumped from 4k to 9k…) and that was by far the most enriching experience I ever gained. Standing on my own two feet, planning, budgeting, got myself a lovely job whilst there and studied law at French uni too. Travelled around a little but immersed myself in French life for a year.

I then came home to my boyfriend (now husband) and the pressure to finish everything and get qualified quickly has now led me to a place where I’m not 100% happy in my job/ life but I’m pressured to keep going so I don’t let anyone down.

Don’t be that parent to your DD. Support her to take the time to choose, to learn new skills and be allowed to change her mind, to learn from any mistakes and to know her own mind.

as long as she isn’t bank rolled through her year and can work alongside choosing what she wants to do longer term, then she will learn some valuable life experiences.

the number of parents I work with in your situation where I hear them at work saying similar things about their kids, makes me feel there is far too much pressure on the kids. I think that comes from “doing well” and having money to fund things for their kids, and wanting to be in control, when in reality the kids don’t care about any of that, they just want to make their own decisions.

Sounds like she has a well thought out plan. Different to what you did but not wrong at all. The gap year would be beneficial in giving her life experience and she has time to decide what she ( not you ) wants to do with her future.

I have noticed a very strong tendency amongst medics to consider only medicine, law, possibly engineering, banking as acceptable future outcomes for their kids and wonder how many of them will be miserable in the path their parents approve of. of. It smacks of snobbery and utter lack of imagination.

I was going to say precisely this in my post above, but was wary of generalising. But I have absolutely observed this too.