To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

Would it be worth looking a 4 year degree with a year in Industry?

This sounds absolutely fine to me. DD1 had a gap year (worked in retail, so good to put on her CV), then did a four year undergrad degree at a RG university. Then moved to the country of her second language/nationality where she has spent two years doing various jobs. She’s now thinking of doing a Masters there, or something more vocational, tied in with something she’s learned during one of her jobs. As long as she’s enjoying herself and has enough to support herself, I think that’s the main thing.

I think she would rather a year abroad than a year in industry.

I find your attitude borderline offensive and all it does is highlight your ignorance and out-dated attitude towards non-traditional career paths.
I had straight A*s at gcse and a level, did a combined honours arts degree, including a year abroad (which was the best experience of my life which taught me more than anything I ever learned in a classroom) I then did a MA because I like learning which will never be applied practically to my career but taught me how to think and approach problems and was for me.
I then fell into marketing as a career and loved it so have spent ten years progressing my career. It’s an amazing mix of creativity and practicality.

Marketing is NOT the crayons department or mad men - it’s taking data and translating it into a tangible strategy which works efficiently and effectively to achieve objectives and then executing it in a timely way within your budget. You need a mix of lots of different skills; problem solving, stakeholder management, creativity, attention to detail, organisation, and also you need a strong aptitude for maths because how are you going to calculate the RICE score of different projects without it, or forecast growth, or understand what is driving your LTV:CAC up or even mange your budget effectively without it. Your daughter sounds well suited to it tbh - open minded, pragmatic, well rounded approach, creative, intelligent and sociable - she’s just the kind of person I’d want in my team - in fact if she wanted to see what it’s really like I’d happily have her onboard to do some work experience or an internship.

It also won’t limit her future earning potential - I earn more than my friends who are doctors or lawyers - it’s a respected profession and is only going to grow and the breadth of skills will become more in demand as more aspects of life move online. And if she decides to move into something else that’s not marketing - she can! Squiggly careers are very much a thing, maybe she’ll move into product management or bizops, or revops, or analytics - as long as she’s enjoying what she’s doing she’s doing well. It’s very rare to have a set career path chosen at 18 outside of trades like medicine.

Whats limiting her is your blinkered attitude, if you want to support her learn about what these things involve and the options they open up - don’t assume as it’s not what you chose it’s not right or good enough for her

I find your post really sad. There's a book about parenting style which compares it to being either a gardener or a carpenter. I'm sure you'll see where the author is coming from OP.
A good friend became a dentist because her father wanted her to take over his practice eventually. She was unhappy in her profession for years and had a minor crisis at forty and gave it all up. She's much happier now in a different job but wasted years trying to please a parent.

She does have a plan, it just isn’t the plan you want for her. It must have taken quite a lot of courage to voice what she actually wants to do in the face of the opposition that she knew she’d meet. If you force her down a route she isn’t interested in then that will likely be a waste of time as she’ll eventually want to retrain to follow her heart and, in the meantime, she’ll resent you for forcing her to do something that makes her unhappy. It sounds like you’re a very caring parent and are acting out of good intentions, but maybe try stepping back a bit and being objective about your response to your daughter’s aspirations.

My undergraduate degree is in modern languages and I did a 4 year degree with one spent abroad. I loved it. I chose to be a teacher as that is what I wanted to do.. I also had A* grades and all As at Gcse level but wasn't interested in finance, law etc. My friends from my course are mostly not teachers and are very successful think marketing manager for a large multinational, another in publishing whee she uses her French to link to the Canadian market, one in the charity sector but at a high level, one in politics linked to the EU (based in Ireland not the UK). The teacher is living in HK ina decent wage too. I am retraining as I have had enough of teaching and am perusing business and adding to my qualifications but I wasn't interested in this field at 18. Let her do what she is interested in. Languages are a skill.

It's. Her. Life.

YABU.

I am a hospital consultant. My kids are at university doing subjects they love. Not a clue about careers but not any of the ‘professions’. I am excited about where they will end up!! They are so young and they work hard at subjects they enjoy. I don’t expect more at this stage. It’s not the career plan I had but that’s ok.

DD has had a lovely middle class life so far. Who would want their child to have a less good life than them?

Define “good life”? Perhaps DD doesn’t want the extra cash 10 years down the line, if it’s going to stop her from doing what she really loves and enjoys.

You only have to see on here the amount of posters in well-paid professions (be it healthcare or finance or anything else), that are disillusioned with what they do, can’t stand their jobs, wish they could change careers, and generally just sleepwalk through monotonous and - to them - boring jobs, just to keep earning what they do.

Perhaps offering your child a lovely middle class life isn’t the be-all and end-all. I’d much rather my children have less material luxuries but be encouraged to make smart choices while also taking into account their passions and interests. I’d like for them not to feel any family pressure or expectations as to what careers are deemed acceptable, even if they did have a lovely middle class upbringing.

This too !
A degree is no longer what it used to be, particularly in something like Business Studies where they have already been studying it for a few years.
DS is going to university because he really wants to, but at our workplace we have apprentices who get paid a decent wage and if they are good at it, end up with the same job at the end of it than if they had come in after a degree. Plus they are making pension contributions whilst working which - with the ever increasing pension age - is important too.

With teenagers I feel as long as they are actively doing something and post 18 either studying or self financing, rather than sat moping in their bedroom then you need to let them get on with it.

Good on your DD! She sounds marvellously independent, smart and strong minded. Just leave her be

Wow, you are being VVVV unreasonable.

He plan sounds brilliant and I will be encouraging all my children to travel the world when they're young. She has her whole life ahead of her to work, why shouldn't she enjoy herself a bit first?

Foreign language degrees are well respected and open up a lot of International opportunities - which it sounds like your DD might like. So that plan sounds good to me.

There is SO much more to life than money and working in a 'respectable job'.

I had a stable, good job in finance but I was miserable. I hated getting up in the morning and I lived for the weekends. I had money, but I was so depressed by my job that I wasn't able to enjoy it. I packed it all in and went off in search of something that would make me happy.

I'm not as financially well off now, but I am 10000% times happier and don't have to force myself out of bed in the mornings.

*DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.*

Um what? They have very similar plans indeed, just your DD is planning more travelling which makes her plan superior IMO.

Or is it that you’re disappointed that she’s not doing medicine or law? How sad. Sounds like she’s setting herself up for a far more fun and rich and interesting life really.

Such an exciting time in life and it sounds like you have 2 marvellous children to be incredibly proud of!

Which is brilliant, because it’ll push her in more ways than she can imagine, much more than a year in industry would. I say this as someone who did multiple international moves on my own before the age of 25 - both for study and work. It brings you out of your comfort zone and tests your resilience in a unique way, which is so valuable down the line and when you talk about “life experience”.

Encourage her in this. Let her know you believe in her plan and ambition, because it’ll change her immensely, and for the better.

I was a languages teacher for over thirty years. One of my most successful (female) students did business and languages at Durham and ended up in a relatively short space of time as European Director of a major pharmaceutical company. She has the potential for a hugely successful career, it just doesn't happen to match what you see as successful.

It sounds to me as though she does have a plan. Going travelling and taking a gap is something I did and it did wonders for my confidence.

Surely the main thing is she happy.

My 18 year old son has mental health/ health issues issues and anxiety and is in his first year of redoing A levels at college having dropped out of school. Having had to give up his dreams of marine biology as the subject proved too hard for him he has no idea what he will do. It is a worry especially as we live in a dead end seaside town.

^^ this!!
@Alwaystransforming
thanks for typing it out!!

You are being completely U. I would rather my own child do 10 stints on love island than work in finance. Do you know how many young, bright people have their mental health shot by working at some of those hell hole investment banks? Especially women. Sexism, drugs, old boys’ networks, etc, it’s all rife.

On the other hand I know loads of people who work in marketing and have had incredibly interesting careers so far, and what’s more most of them are happy as well! I also know countless people who have started down the route of law/ medicine because mummy wanted them to and ended up in careers they weren’t good at/ interested in because they didn’t choose their true passion.

She’s doing exactly the right thing, allowing herself time to think about what she wants to do next but with some very sensible options in mind. And she seems to be funding it herself. She sounds like an amazing young woman.

The problem here is you I’m afraid and if you keep trying to push her into your own preconceived ideas of success you’ll push her away.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

I'm so confused. I read your post waiting for the 'problem' and I realised there wasn't one. What is chaotic about a gap year, a degree then a masters in something employable. Seriously I have no idea what is bothering you. Why are you saying a 4 year degree as if it's chaotic. All language degrees have a year abroad.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

Why weren't you supportive of her choices. I'm no linguist. I'm mtgs and science but languages are a completely decent subject choice as is English. Art is a personal choice but she's taking FOUR a levels. What is your problem?

She sound 100% stable

Oh dear, of course yabu. You seem to have a very narrowly defined version of what you think success is. I'm a teacher and cant count the number of pushy dr type parents I have come across who try to hot house their children into making their choices. If she doesn't like maths there isn't any point doing an a level....that's just silly.
Tread very carefully here. Your disappointment in your daughter jumps out in each sentence of your post. This attitude will be hard to mask at home and that feeling of just not being good enough just as she is will affect her mental wellbeing and relationship with you.
She has a perfectly sensible plan, support her as she enters adulthood so she can come to you when the inevitable bumps in the road occur.

Yabvu. Your dd sounds very sensible.

One of mine (very bright, all A* at A level) took the route he thought he should, because of school influence/career prospects.

Three months into uni, was in deep depression and hating every minute of his degree, despite doing well in assignments. Long story short, came home, left uni. Spent the rest of that year working and travelling.

Started different uni/different degree the following year and soared (academic awards, top performer in his year etc) and is now almost through his Phd related to a subject that he loves.

He still says now that taking a year out after A levels should be compulsory, it did him the world of good in terms of maturity and getting some really good work experience.

I think you need to back off, stop projecting your needs and wants onto your DD and let her find her own path. You will end up making her feel like she isn't good enough as she isn't living up to your ideal of who you think she should be. Home is a safe place the world will do that to her enough. I'd recommend reflecting on your need to control her trajectory and what your underlying motives are regarding your worries about this.

I'll summarise your post: 'My daughter is lost and chaotic unless she's doing maths A-level and then going into either medicine, law or finance.'

It is a bit strange, tbh, for someone so averredly middle-class to have such a narrow and reductive view of what makes a 'good career' and of perfectly academic and rigorous 'facilitating' A-levels. Most MC people secure in their class would encourage their children to follow their interests (in a productive way, which it sounds as if your dd is doing) and broaden their minds with travel. And none of the careers you class as 'proper' are immune to AI. Everyone is going to have to take a creative and flexible approach.

The most I might do is encourage her to consider a straight languages degree and get some kind of industrial experience - marketing-related, if that's what she wants - in her year abroad (Brexit notwithstanding, European businesses love to have an English native speaker around).

Let her steer her own ship, she needs to make her own choices and be supported