To wonder if schools can do this!

[LondonElle]

My 12 year old son was due to go on a sports trip on Friday for the weekend.
We had paid in full for this (over £300.)

He stupidly got involved in a fight the day of the trip ( out of character ) after another boy called him names.

No excuses he was in the wrong and will be punished severely...

I am not minimising what he did.. he was an absolute idiot.

The school pulled the trip which has led to us being out of pocket and he is in isolation on Monday.

I have mixed feeling about this as I'm not sure the school had much of a choice and couldn't fill his place at short notice but part of me thinks due to the bad press the school has recently received and the lack of pastoral support in his year group that an example may have been made of him ( which may be a good thing)

Do I have to suck it up and accept this... don't hold back.. I need cold hard truths!

Let’s say this was a theatre trip rather than a residential and the theatre tickets had been bought.
If you don’t turn up at the theatre for any reason they don’t give you the money back. It’s the same here. The money has gone to the coach company, the accommodation company, etc. They won’t be refunding the school just like the theatre wouldn’t.

I think it’s awful for you, but it is what it is. They can’t trust him to behave on the trip, and so can’t be responsible for him and don’t want to take him. They’ve paid up for everything and divided it by the students going, and so can’t refund.

It won't be the school that have kept the money, more likely the travel company. All this would have been outlined in the letter

Have you approached the school regarding the bullying? If not, why not?

Or, is it that some name calling was happening which is not acceptable but nor is it bullying if it’s not been repeatedly.
The school, if they’d not known, cannot be expected to have dealt with it.

Does the school not have insurance against this? Will a teacher take his place and go on a jolly? Your son was sticking up for himself. I'd be furious and I work in a secondary school.

The school are out of order and should repay the cost of the trip. Take them to the small claims court. It's cheeky.

Of course it's not cheeky. It will be in the Ts & Cs for school trips in tye school's policies, and no doubt the school has already paid for the child's place. Why should the school refund the OP, when that would mean the school was footing the bill for a child who had been (rightfully) excluded from the trip for fighting?

You work in secondary school and are honestly asking if the place will be used by a teacher to "go on a jolly"?

ODFOD

Go on a jolly? Have you ever been a teacher in charge of a residential trip? No, of course you haven't or you wouldn't say such a stupid thing.

A jolly!!! You have never taken a school trip, have you?

I'd be furious and I work in a secondary school.

What do you do?

😂Ah thanks, I needed a laugh today.

You always post this on school trip threads. I remember because it amuses me every time.

I wouldn't be happy about that at all.
You say it is very out of character and the other not was name calling
Your son was wrong to resort to violence but I would want to know more about why it happened and if there is a pattern of the bot name calling etc.
Stopping your son going on the trip seems very unfair.

If you work in a school then why don't you go on the jollies? There are never enough people who are willing to give up their weekends so they will be glad to have you. Win - win.

@Shetlands I will argue verbal abuse is worse considering the potential mental health issues vs fisty cuff resulting in a few bruises.

OP I would be raising hell and doing a charge back for services not received.

We wonder why we have a knife crime problem when a normal school fight results in excessive punishment. Two kids scrapping in a school trip is a potential embarrassment issue not a safety issue.

Stopping your son going on the trip seems very unfair.

I can't see that at all. What if someone else says something to him and he has a fight with them?

He's not going to be inside a school building. He could get arrested for a start. And who is going to break up the fight?

Please tell me you work in a role that's not directly related to education?

Fuck sake.

This is why there are hardly any trips run any more.

Imagine you are the teacher running the trip. You’ve done approx 100 hours of admin to get to this point (not hyperbole).

You’ve paid up your tickets and coach fees.

You've got the prospect of a weekend of the most stressful work ahead of you: no sleep and keeping kids who aren’t yours alive outside of their normal setting.

You’ll not be getting paid any extra for it or time in lieu but you’re doing it because the kids will get loads out of it in the end.

You hear that Little Jimmy twatted another kid in school yesterday. You can’t possibly take a kid who might twat someone on the trip, and you’ve already done a twenty-page risk assessment including terrorist attacks and peanut allergies.

Thank god your leadership back you up and say Jimmy can’t come.

There’s nobody to take his place last minute because you’ve had ten parents phoning to bitch that the trip costs £300 already, like you have a say in the cost of the tickets. So there’ll be a spare seat on the coach where you can put the full sick bags.

Little Jimmy’s mum is livid and wants her £300 back, which can’t physically happen because it’s already paid to the coach and the tickets people.

You still have twelve parents to phone back who are bitching about other elements of the trip that can’t be changed, including the mother of a mate of the kid who Jimmy twatted saying if Jimmy goes, her kid won’t be allowed to go and she’ll want her £300 back.

Your own kids are being farmed out to family members for the weekend and you’ve got a 60 hour week on your return to look forward to, assuming nothing goes wrong on the trip and you don’t have to fill in any more paperwork for the governors.

Do you plan the same trip for next year, or do you think fuck it, while you search civil service jobs and read about wfh?

Will a teacher take his place and go on a jolly?

FFS. You try going on a residential trip with a load of school kids and being responsible for them 24 hours a day and tell me afterwards if it felt like a jolly.

How many posters on this thread would like to be responsible for taking a child on a trip who has been physically violent THAT DAY. He obviously wasn't in the right place mentally to go on the trip if he lashed out at another student. It's a safeguarding thing as much as anything- they can't guarantee his safety or that of other students if he goes on the trip.

OP is not out of pocket, she has already budgeted for the money. If the school refund OP, they will be out of pocket. Okay, £300 is not that much to a school but it will e.g. pay for a supply teacher for a couple of days, or pay for class resources such as mini whiteboard pens across the subject, or it will pay for a number of science experiments. State school budgets are finely balanced- should other children lose out because OP's child was violent.

Yes, perhaps the name calling should have been dealt with earlier by the school, but OP says it was relatively minor, and it's clear this wasn't the case of eg just one push or one retaliation. The other child may have been injured. They may also have been punished, but that's not for the school to share with OP.

Parents moan about lack of trips, too, but this is why schools/school staff don't want to run them! You can't have it all ways!

@LondonElle

I'm a teacher and I think the punishment is over the top.

He was clearly provoked and this behaviour was very out of character. And the other boy wasn't even going on the trip!!

I'd be wanting a full refund from the school unless they can show the school policy that you were made aware of regarding this.

We have banned kids from trips before but only because they had a history of poor behaviour and they hadn't met the behaviour standard.

Organising and running a school trip is one of the most exhausting and stressful experiences of my whole life. It's a specific part of my role, but I'd actually pay NOT to go on one.

Would you really, truly, take a 12yo on a trip on the day they'd been in a fight?

I'd (maybe) agree if the fight had been a week or two ago and child had had a chance to calm down etc, and genuinely was a one off. But not the day of. That child isn't in the right frame of mind to be spending the weekend away from home, for all sorts of reasons.

It's not just about punishment, it's also about safeguarding. If a colleague suggested this, I'd genuinely question their judgement.

Also, I'm not sure OP actually states anywhere that his behaviour record is otherwise absolutely perfect.

Can anyone show me an example of the T&C’s that you agree to when signing up for school trips?

ours are in years 13 and 11 and I can honestly say that I’ve never been made aware of anything like this.

If it was a child I knew well and this was extremely out of character and a one off then yes I'd have no issues taking them.

I'm guessing there was not enough time to investigate but given the excellent track record the school should probably offer to refund the £300 less an admin fee if there was no prior policy about behaviour.