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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if schools can do this!

193 replies

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 12:54

My 12 year old son was due to go on a sports trip on Friday for the weekend.
We had paid in full for this (over £300.)

He stupidly got involved in a fight the day of the trip ( out of character ) after another boy called him names.

No excuses he was in the wrong and will be punished severely...

I am not minimising what he did.. he was an absolute idiot.

The school pulled the trip which has led to us being out of pocket and he is in isolation on Monday.

I have mixed feeling about this as I'm not sure the school had much of a choice and couldn't fill his place at short notice but part of me thinks due to the bad press the school has recently received and the lack of pastoral support in his year group that an example may have been made of him ( which may be a good thing)

Do I have to suck it up and accept this... don't hold back.. I need cold hard truths!

OP posts:
NeedToChangeName · 09/03/2024 16:06

SpringtimeBunny · 09/03/2024 16:03

They can’t keep the money and essentially charge you for a trip that never happened

Well they can........ if it was in the T&C that the trip was conditional on good behaviour and refunds wouldn't be given......... and I'm sure that's the case here

SpringtimeBunny · 09/03/2024 16:10

@NeedToChangeName Sorry no, t&cs don't override the law and consumer rights. Otherwise people would add alllll sorts of ridiculous caveats into their t&cs

SpringtimeBunny · 09/03/2024 16:13

@MagnoliaBrown Yes but contracts don't override uk law and consumer rights. Otherwise dodgy types would add in things in the small print, like "the customer then owes X business ten million pounds!" Legal rights stand above any contract/tenancy agreement, terms and conditions etc no matter what

DodgeDoggie · 09/03/2024 16:15

He’s a good boy so seems like hitting a nut with a hammer! He shouldn't have been in a fight BUT a proportionate punishment would have been isolation or some sort of school based service next week. Reflection, anger control strategies, boundaries on how to deal with upsetting interactions also. Cancelling an important trip which makes school more bearable seems overkill. Disproportionate. It also seems over kill continuing to punish him at home too when the existing school punishment is so extreme. You’re much better off talking him through the situation and helping him reflect on how to deal with upsets. After all, these are skills we need to children to develop as they move into adulthood

DodgeDoggie · 09/03/2024 16:15

School Contracts are not legally binding

helpfulperson · 09/03/2024 16:16

Just bear in mind that if you do force the school to return the money, and I suspect you will have signed to say you understand that poor behaviour means you forfeit the money, it is likely he will never again get the opportunity to go on a trip as the school won't risk it happening twice.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:16

@SpringtimeBunny Most (if not all) holiday companies have a cancellation policy. You'd be hard pushed to find any tour operator that gave refunds with less than 24hrs notice. And the OPs money is with the tour operator, not the school.

MrsMurphyIWish · 09/03/2024 16:17

@SpringtimeBunny You maybe right but the OP’s son was in a fight. If he was allowed to go what message does that send? In future schools will stop trips in the events of paying refunds for children who fight.

PostmanPatAlwaysRingsTwice · 09/03/2024 16:17

Alaina7 · 09/03/2024 13:07

Well done to the school for sending a strong message against bullying.

I’d give him chores to do to “refund” at least some of the cost of the trip.

Edited

It might have been the opposite of a strong message against bullying. You don’t know that the other boy wasn’t bullying OP’s DS, with him finally resorting to hitting the boy to try and get him to stop.
Whilst physical retaliation shouldn’t be permitted, it’s quite often the case that a child deliberately verbally antagonises another to try and get a response. We don’t know the story here.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:18

DodgeDoggie · 09/03/2024 16:15

School Contracts are not legally binding

Why on earth would you think that?

enchantedsquirrelwood · 09/03/2024 16:19

Resilience · 09/03/2024 13:01

He will hopefully think twice before resorting to violence in response to verbal provocation. I think that's a good thing.

However, as a parent I'd want to be checking that this wasn't a final straw situation in response to longer term bullying etc.

Yes this. Schools can be very bad at recognising bullying. People say only violence matters - no, name calling can be very damaging as well - see the thread about the fleeting comments made that stay with people.

It is a harsh punishment for him, but will make him think. My son once got involved in something similar, the school didn't stop him going on a short trip (just an evening event) the following week, but I did, and we didn't have a recurrence. But also, the school realised he'd been bullied and dealt with the situation. Which was probably also why we didn't have a recurrence.

I don't see any reason for you to punish him again at home, the school has done it.

Removing devices will not help.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 09/03/2024 16:20

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:18

Why on earth would you think that?

Show quote history

Because it's true.

Edited: sorry I thought you meant parent-school agreements.

Agreements between tour operators and schools/parents are legally binding.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:23

enchantedsquirrelwood · 09/03/2024 16:20

Because it's true.

Edited: sorry I thought you meant parent-school agreements.

Agreements between tour operators and schools/parents are legally binding.

Edited
Show quote history

No, it's really not.

An actual contract is legally binding.

An 'I agree to xyz' type letter might not be but an actual contract is.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:24

Quoted before your edit!

DodgeDoggie · 09/03/2024 16:25

I’d ask the school for the cash back, take them to the small claims court if they refuse.

Crumpleton · 09/03/2024 16:26

This incident happened on school premises in school hours.

If this other boy had been goading your DS for a while your first port of call is to get intouch with his head of year or who ever is responsible for him while at school, and have a word explaining what's be going on, no need to go in just a phone call.

If it still continued I'd have raised it to the Headteacher and expected both boys to have been called separately and spoken to and asked the HT what they intended to do to put an end to it.
It's their problem to solve while in their care.

Violence is never the answer as your DS has found out.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 09/03/2024 16:27

It's a natural consequence of his actions. He showed that he was unable to regulate his behaviour appropriately by getting into a fight, so the school don't want the responsibility of taking him on a trip. Fair enough. Hopefully he will learn from it.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:28

DodgeDoggie · 09/03/2024 16:25

I’d ask the school for the cash back, take them to the small claims court if they refuse.

And lose even more money paying court fees?

Abouttimeforanamechange · 09/03/2024 16:36

They [school] can’t keep the money

They haven't got the money. It's been paid out for coach, accommodation, meals, activities, insurance....

Coolblur · 09/03/2024 16:41

I'm pretty sure if it were a £2k skiing trip others here wouldn't be so quick to defend the school!

Unless there was something in the trip's Ts & Cs stating this could happen in the event of bad behaviour, I would be discussing the choice of punishment with the school, and how they will be refunding the lost cost of the trip. They've made a unilateral decision that's left you out of pocket and disadvantaged your son (compared with others going on the trip) without consulting you.
What would they have used as punishment had he not been going on the trip? Why didn't they do that instead?
Of course, he should be punished both by the school and at home, but I don't agree that you should be punished too financially.

As for 'maybe he'll think again in future', if it were my DS, he'd not be going on any more trips that could be pulled at short notice, and I'd have lost some faith in the school to administer proportionate and appropriate punishment.

Starspangledrodeopony · 09/03/2024 16:43

I’d be absolutely fucking furious if they kept my money.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 09/03/2024 16:46

Coolblur · 09/03/2024 16:41

I'm pretty sure if it were a £2k skiing trip others here wouldn't be so quick to defend the school!

Unless there was something in the trip's Ts & Cs stating this could happen in the event of bad behaviour, I would be discussing the choice of punishment with the school, and how they will be refunding the lost cost of the trip. They've made a unilateral decision that's left you out of pocket and disadvantaged your son (compared with others going on the trip) without consulting you.
What would they have used as punishment had he not been going on the trip? Why didn't they do that instead?
Of course, he should be punished both by the school and at home, but I don't agree that you should be punished too financially.

As for 'maybe he'll think again in future', if it were my DS, he'd not be going on any more trips that could be pulled at short notice, and I'd have lost some faith in the school to administer proportionate and appropriate punishment.

Might well be in the T&Cs I reckon.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:48

Coolblur · 09/03/2024 16:41

I'm pretty sure if it were a £2k skiing trip others here wouldn't be so quick to defend the school!

Unless there was something in the trip's Ts & Cs stating this could happen in the event of bad behaviour, I would be discussing the choice of punishment with the school, and how they will be refunding the lost cost of the trip. They've made a unilateral decision that's left you out of pocket and disadvantaged your son (compared with others going on the trip) without consulting you.
What would they have used as punishment had he not been going on the trip? Why didn't they do that instead?
Of course, he should be punished both by the school and at home, but I don't agree that you should be punished too financially.

As for 'maybe he'll think again in future', if it were my DS, he'd not be going on any more trips that could be pulled at short notice, and I'd have lost some faith in the school to administer proportionate and appropriate punishment.

2k would be exactly the same. Again, no tour operator would give a refund for a cancellation of less than 24hrs notice. Even 10k, no refund.

The not going on the trip might not be a punishment but unavoidable consequence due to staff being (rightfully) unwilling to supervise violent children for 48hrs (or however long) straight, unpaid, out of the goodness of their hearts.

BCBird · 09/03/2024 16:49

It is a massive responsibility to take pupils on a trip. The trust needed has been broken. Good behaviour would have been one of the terms and conditions OP

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 09/03/2024 16:50

Starspangledrodeopony · 09/03/2024 16:43

I’d be absolutely fucking furious if they kept my money.

Really? I'd be furious at my DC for wasting £300! Not at the school.