Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if schools can do this!

193 replies

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 12:54

My 12 year old son was due to go on a sports trip on Friday for the weekend.
We had paid in full for this (over £300.)

He stupidly got involved in a fight the day of the trip ( out of character ) after another boy called him names.

No excuses he was in the wrong and will be punished severely...

I am not minimising what he did.. he was an absolute idiot.

The school pulled the trip which has led to us being out of pocket and he is in isolation on Monday.

I have mixed feeling about this as I'm not sure the school had much of a choice and couldn't fill his place at short notice but part of me thinks due to the bad press the school has recently received and the lack of pastoral support in his year group that an example may have been made of him ( which may be a good thing)

Do I have to suck it up and accept this... don't hold back.. I need cold hard truths!

OP posts:
GremlinsTwo12 · 09/03/2024 13:13

Sounds like you've already taken on board opinions 😊

Yes, this is an appropriate consequence and with the massive increase in violence in schools and in also in airlines/holidays that are happening that result in adult individuals being removed and their holidays cancelled without refunds it's a good lesson that as an adult, there will be consequences too.

Maybe if those adults had had similar consequences in regards to aggressive/violent behaviour in childhood or adolescence, there wouldn't be so many problems now.

SpeedyDrama · 09/03/2024 13:13

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 13:08

I will say my son isn't a bully... the other child has been goading him for a while. He did over react and I am not excusing this. But he has never been involved in any incidents like this before ( and after this I doubt he will be again)!

So this other child has been bullying him? Can you at least allude to what the name calling is about? Is the school aware that there was tension between these boys and did nothing to ease the situation?

The parent is out of pocket because their child physically assaulted another child. It may have been provoked but retaliating physically is never acceptable.

I have said many times that it’s not ok to physically lash out. But verbal abuse can be horrendous and cause huge lasting mental damage. It shouldn’t be undermined at all.

TigersTea · 09/03/2024 13:14

I am going to go against the general opinion here, and I am a primary teacher. Yes your son was involved in a fight, but if the circumstances are as you say and it was a one off as a result of name calling, I wouldn't have excluded the child from the trip. I think consequences at school the following week would be more appropriate. If I did this in my school, there would be absolute uproar from parents. I am genuinely surprised at the support for school here... maybe I need some new parents Blush

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 13:15

Low level stuff mainly nothing extreme.
Comments about his appearance

OP posts:
Frozenasarock · 09/03/2024 13:16

It’s a simple safety issue - you can’t take a young person on a trip who less than 24 hours ago was fighting someone who called him names. What if a member of an opposing sports team taunted him?

Other child needs dealing with (though you probably won’t be privy to how), but ultimately they simply have to learn that no matter what the verbal provocation physically attacking someone is never acceptable. Even if it’s a reaction to bullying. Better he learns that now over the loss of a school trip than when he’s older and the police are involved or someone gets seriously hurt.

SevenSeasOfRhye · 09/03/2024 13:19

If you paid by card, you could claim a 'goods not received' refund via your bank. Fair enough to kick him off the trip, but you shouldn't be out of pocket for his punishment.

Glass113 · 09/03/2024 13:20

Lots of leaps here. Bullying and attacking another child. Sounds like it was a 50/50 fight.

I think you'll have to suck it up but if it was a one off and out out character for him I will admit I'd feel it was harsh. Although the school has to draw the line somewhere so probably had no other choice.

WeeOrcadian · 09/03/2024 13:25

So, the other kid was bullying your child - what consequences have been implemented for THAT?

Topofthemountain · 09/03/2024 13:25

It is often in the T&C of the trip. A harsh lesson for all though.

My DD is due on a college trip soon to London, a mix of 16, 17 and 18 year olds. Apparently there is a teacher on standby in the NE to drive down and collect any pupils breaking rules, including drinking. Schools take behaviour on trips very seriously.

UseItOrloseItt · 09/03/2024 13:27

Was it made clear before booking that you could have your place cancelled due to bad behaviour?

This. And not only made clear it would be cancelled but cancelled with no refund.

Kids sometimes fight. No, it's not acceptable, yes it needs to be addressed and punished. However, in the case of a fairly low level fight...no bullying involved, 50/50, a few punches thrown but no particular injuries to either party, no history or other behavioural issues, kids are apologetic..I think banning him from the trip with no refund is not acceptable.

In this case it's £300. That might be easy for some posters to wave goodbye to but what if it was more?

Ds2 is going skiing in 2 weeks. It's cost £1200, plus all the kit needed and theres never been any mention of T&C or instances that would lead to no trip AND no refund.

If ds was involved in a fight (in circumstances like I posted above) and the school casually told me he's now banned and I'm not getting my money back, I would absolutely dispute that.

BrokenBonesStixStones · 09/03/2024 13:30

What consequences did the boy who was name calling face? He's not blameless either

Lifebeganat50 · 09/03/2024 13:30

WeeOrcadian · 09/03/2024 13:25

So, the other kid was bullying your child - what consequences have been implemented for THAT?

That’s what I’d be interested to know, especially as it seems to have been going on for a while

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 13:32

Not sure of consequences for the other child.
I know other child was upset by it... it's all very recent and not had a lot of time to process it all.

OP posts:
CaptainOhMyCaptain · 09/03/2024 13:33

I’m with @TigersTea. £300 is a lot of money and I’d be extremely cross if that was lost on the basis of a first offence

AmusedAmberCrab · 09/03/2024 13:36

The longer people leave their children in these abusive institutions, the more mental health illness we'll see in children.
It's really not surprising the world's such a mess when schools get away with treating children like this and parents allow it.

Shetlands · 09/03/2024 13:37

LondonElle · 09/03/2024 13:00

I do care about the other child of course but it was very 50/50.

It wasn't 50/50 though. One child was verbally abusive and the other child was physically abusive. The latter is a worse misdemeanour than the former.

DivorcedAndDelighted · 09/03/2024 13:38

School is within its rights to ban him, but that was not the only option open to them. They did have a choice, and could have imposed an alternative consequence. Therefore, it doesn't seem fair that you should take the financial penalty. I would appeal this, and make the point very strongly that a parental investment of £300 is significant. You sound like a very reasonable person so I'm sure you will be able to make the point in a respectful manner.

GremlinsTwo12 · 09/03/2024 14:19

To the majority of posters - He's 12, not 5. He's over the age of criminal responsibility and should be able to control his violent responses and if not, negative consequences should result.

At what point are we saying physical assault is unacceptable and should have serious consequences that actually mean something negative to the young person?

Regardless of provocation, until we as a society all agree physical assault is unacceptable and should be dealt with by negative consequences, what are we doing?

Until we all say nope, never acceptable, there'll always be violence.

And at what age? If we say secondary school as the OPs boy is, at what age should we expect people to not physically assault others? If it's not 12 then when? 13? Because with every arbitrary age there will always be people that say well yes 12/13/14 but we need to take into consideration if it's 12 and 2 days or 12 and 350 days. And take into account ND and MH and trauma and this and that.

And in the meantime, I live in a city where three 15/16 year old boys were murdered by other teenagers in a month and another 16 year old stabbed so severely he is fighting for his life in intensive care. In the span of a month.

Because all of those teenagers all think they were justified in their perpetrating violence or murder on other kids. Because those other kids did or said x, y or z.

And it's not just my city. Teen violence and murder has exploded across the UK and it's not all poor kids, gang kids, criminal kids or whatever else people say to reassure themselves it won't happen to their kids, it's happening all the time and something we all should be worried about.

It might seem dramatic of me or thread drift but it isn't. As long as we say "kids fight" "they're provoked" "it's 50/50" "bullying results in the victim retaliating physically and that's understandable" "bullied kids will carry knives for protection" then we're all screwed quite honestly.

We have to say violence is never, ever acceptable and if you act violently, there should be immediate negative consequences that have a real effect.

We're dealing with an epidemic of youth violence and murder.

And overall increae in aggression and violence from young people and adults to peers, partners, family, teachers, Police, healthcare staff, transport staff, shop staff and on and on.

Until we say "never acceptable" to violence and there is a negative consequence, there's no incentive to not repeat the behaviour.

NotStylishOrBeautiful · 09/03/2024 14:29

It will have been written in the original letter that attendance is reliant on good behaviour (or similar)

They will also have done a risk assessment based on the prior good behaviour of pupils. If your son has been fighting then their risk assessment no longer stands. They might need additional staff, plans in place to collect children, etc etc. No time to sort that between incident and trip.

Monkeybutt1 · 09/03/2024 14:54

I don't understand why pp are saying the op is out of pocket, she isn't. She's already paid the money and wouldn't have been expecting it back.
The school can't be expected to pay her back or they would be out of pocket

Viviennemary · 09/03/2024 14:56

The school are out of order and should repay the cost of the trip. Take them to the small claims court. It's cheeky.

Helfs · 09/03/2024 14:56

YABU

TheFancyPoet · 09/03/2024 15:03

You have to teach your son now that even when we are insulted and feel hurt, hurting back or going physical is not the right behaviour. And to start building some inner resilience against nasty comments, not accepting them. Just teach your son, money, trips, strangers kids at school are not important. You, your son and your responsibility to him as a mother and even more so his father, is what matters right now.

Monkeybutt1 · 09/03/2024 15:03

Viviennemary · 09/03/2024 14:56

The school are out of order and should repay the cost of the trip. Take them to the small claims court. It's cheeky.

Why is it cheeky? You can't expect to be allowed on a trip when you resort to violence, as much as he was been antagonised that is no excuse.

Kat70 · 09/03/2024 15:13

Shetlands · 09/03/2024 13:37

It wasn't 50/50 though. One child was verbally abusive and the other child was physically abusive. The latter is a worse misdemeanour than the former.

Well that depends doesn't it?
Because verbally someone could be extremely aggressive, racist,, anti semitic, use really disgusting, vile hate speech. And that is NOT a lesser act than something physical.

Swipe left for the next trending thread