To not stop this activity even though school asked me to?

[StoppingTheClassDueToDetention]

DD is 9, Year 5 but at a middle school so it’s more like a secondary school than a primary.

If a child gets 2 lunchtime detentions in a half term, the 3rd detention is after school on a Thursday and a meeting with the parents and form tutor is held.

DD got her 3rd Detention so had to do it after school last night. Meeting for me was today.

School urge parents to backup the detention by taking away out of school activities, phones or other rewards and the form tutor urged me to do this.

DD does 3 activities out of school and I am taking away 2 of them; one is tomorrow and the other Monday after school.

The other one I am reluctant to take away, she has a medical condition that causes pain. Her pain levels are much lower and she’s less likely to need painkillers which cause their own issues (constipation, more exhausted so unable to get through the day and do her normal activities etc) if she does this activity. It’s a physical activity, for this thread we’ll say its Yoga but it’s not that but works in a similar way.

When DD doesn’t do yoga due to her teacher being off or her being ill there is noticeable differences in her pain levels and ability to get through the day without pain killers, it affects her school work because she is more tired due to the painkillers so I’m being called to pick her up etc. Basically unless the teacher is off or she’s ill, she goes to Yoga, I plan holidays around it and try and find classes where we stay if we’re going to be away over the normal class it's that important to keep her doing it and exercising as she just cannot function or be a normal 9yo without.

I told DDs form tutor I would stop the other 2 activities, taken away her phone for the weekend and if she carries on will remove her from the Easter Concert for her Choir activity that she’s been practising for all half term both during Choir sessions and also in the shower every single morning before school. She is really excited to be in this concert as she missed out at Christmas due to the concert time falling during her dads weekend so she didn’t even audition (I use that term loosely, literally anyone who auditions gets a place, it’s just to see whether you get a solo or do chorus/duet etc instead). I will also not let her go to the café after Yoga which is our usual ritual every week.

Her form tutor urged me to rething taking Yoga away as there is a social aspect to it. But the class is 30 mins with little time to chat during it and I can hurry her in and out before and after. Teacher is aware of her medical issues but as she's only been at the school less than a year and they've not seen the effects of her not going I don't think they realise how much it's needed.

I don't agree with punishing her to the point of pain either, that just seems counterproductive and borderline cruel to me.

So AIBU to not stop Yoga?

I wouldn't be stopping any of them and I'd be telling the absolute weirdo of a teacher to get a grip.

Detentions are for ridiculous reasons that are nothing to do with bad behaviour.
School are absolutely ridiculous and thoroughly unreasonable, way overstepping boundaries.

So I have had a reply from school re detentions and reasoning:

1. Locker Key - apparently they are reminded to always have it on them and they are told its a detention if they forget it, they don't let them ring home about it because they're 7 form entry and have over 800 pupils so can't have them all calling home everyday for a locker key. I will let this one go as I see their reasoning, will remind DD to check she has every morning.
2. Caught drinking between lessons - By this stage in year 5 they are expected to know not to go to their locker between lessons and go at before school, break, lunch and after school only. They have bags but aren't supposed to keep water bottles in their bags - I've asked how DD can be allowed to have her water bottle with her at all times apart from Science (once per week so she should manage this) and will look at getting medical proof of this
3. House pin on lapel not tie - Apparently they only get the detention if they have been told by a teacher to move it already that day, it's recorded on the system that they've been told. I am sceptical about this and been asked for which teachers told her, and also asked if they know whether she can move that pin herself as she struggles.

Waiting for a reply. I am leaving 1 as I said as I understand the reasoning of that and will just remind DD, I am waiting to hear back about 2 and to find out which teachers for 3 before I decide what to do about 3.

Holy shit is that a school or a prison? Poor kids. I would not be sending my child to that school!

Op you are still being ridiculous. Your poor DD. None of these are valid reasons for detentions.

Realistically, 800 pupils are not going to forget their locker key on the same day. If it becomes a problem, the school can email the parents a reminder. No need to give detention. I don’t get punished at work if i forget my work pass.

Stop being complicit with this disgrace of a school and do better for your DD. Why do you think it’s ok to treat a 9 year old like this?

OP, that is still all completely ridiculous for a 9 year old.

I can’t believe they have a system to record where a child’s house pin is! Do they not have anything better to do?

In regards to the drinking water, I remember being (when I worked in catering at a school) told that, by law all children Must have access to drinking water at ALL TIMES. I double checked and found this...

SPRs Regulation 9 — (1) Suitable drinking water facilities must be provided. (2) The facilities provided under paragraph (1) will only be suitable if — (a) they are readily accessible at all times when the premises are in use; and (b) they are in a separate area from the toilet facilities.

When you said drinking between lessons I thought you meant alcohol to warrant that punishment.

They are crazy reasons for a detention! Needing a drink is a basic human right I’d be fuming! I wouldn’t take away any thing from home, school punishments should be dealt with in school .

I support detentions if they are for a good reason. However, the detention is the punishment. The school have absolutely no right to interfere with outside of school activities. I wouldn't have stopped any of them and I would have told them so. That is a complete overstep. It sounds similar to my son's school in terms of detentions for really minor things. My son got one recently for being in the sick bay and therefore a few minutes late to lesson. However, he was there as I have to go and give medication. I told them he wouldn't be doing the detention. I am all for teaching children that they have to be responsible and respect the rules, but sometimes I feel it's just way over the top.

It's not a school it's a control facility it's cruel it's oppressive it's North Korean.

Kidney disease is a terrible illness it's important kids have fluid with them. As for toilet what would they prefer kids who soil themselves at their desks?

Even in pain, with disabilities your child is a free spirit.
The greatest achievers are free spirits.

She doesn't need that prison.

OP, there are two issues with the school here.

One is that the school is punishing her for utterly ridiculous things. It doesn't matter how many reminders they had about not forgetting a locker key. Forgetting something isn't an intentional act and it's completely age-inappropriate to expect a 9 yo to remember something every day and never forget.

Two is that the school is trying to make you join in with the punishment and apparently they think an appropriate punishment is to remove all joy from her life in school and out of school. Even if she'd done something terrible like bullying or open defiance, that would never be appropriate.

Then there are two issues with you as a parent.

One is that you're keeping her in that school despite the unrealistic expectations, without challenging them, and I can see that's something you're working on, albeit half-heartedly.

Two is that you are joining in with their insane scheme to punish her in every arena of her life- in school, at home, and in her after school activities. I reiterate, even if she'd done something awful, this isn't an acceptable punishment. Can't you see how awful that is to do to a child? You don't seem to get it. Have you now reinstated her in all clubs and the after-club coffee?

The school is like an abusive partner trying to sever connections between the child, her parents and her hobbies. And you're going along with it.

@MrsSunshine2b Yes I have reinstated her clubs and the cafe after Yoga and will keep these. She had her phone returned to her every morning - she doesn't keep it overnight as she's 9 and would just sit on it all night, so she hands it in after tea unless she needs it for something like speaking to her dad (and even then I expect him to let me know via text he's expecting to speak to her rather than take it for her only).

At our children's high school.
1 sec late to lessons is a mark, once a certain level of marks is reached this then triggers a letter which is then sent to the parents.
This letter consists of level of marks (Score) reached then a lecture describing how punctuality is vital for employment and how lateness is a sign of disorganisation and will result in poor employment/life outcomes etc, etc.
I actually called the person administering the letter and she told us she'd sent out 800 last month alone.🙄
Outdoor school coats are not allowed to be worn indoors under any circumstances.
Obviously not doing homework triggers detention which i have no qualms with although the school sometimes forgets to inform parents which has caused issues around collection times.

Schools seem to be dipping their toes and crossing over into passive bullying rather than reinforcing positive behaviours with these petty rules and regulations.

I don’t get it. Why are you questioning them on the particular circumstances of these detentions? What difference will that make to your response? Nitpicking about which teacher had spoken to your daughter about a badge achieves nothing because it still buys into the idea that their rule around badges being reasonable.

If you’re going to challenge the school on this, it needs to be a challenge to their sanctions system as a whole if you want to effect any sort of change, rather than challenging them on the circumstances of specific events.

Word of warning though: from my experience of having worked in a school like this in a managerial role, it is highly unlikely anything you do will lead to change. The tone tends to be set by the headteacher, who is unlikely to be swayed. Ultimately really you need to decide whether this is worth moving schools for. Even if you stay though, I would be vehemently opposing any suggestion that sanctions be imposed at home.

OP their justifications are irrelevant because the detentions are just not remotely reasonable.

What on earth do they do for kids who have real behavioural issues? Do genuinely bad things? Flog them?! String them up in the playground?

All stuff like this does, is break children down. That's not healthy.

Hang on… they have far too many pupils to call home if one forgets a locker key, but they can record on a system which pupils have been reminded about the position of their house pin that day?

For real?!

Thank goodness for that. I hope that this thread has given you the strength to stop just going along blindly with the insane policies of that school and advocate for your daughter, and that you're looking for other options at least from Y7 onwards.

Nope their reasoning is still batshit

She had a drink. She shouldn't be restricted at NINE about having a drink. No one should tbh.

And the other stuff is OTT for detentions, certainly for the first few times (I can understand, maybe, if a kid left their key every day but I'd also be worried about their home life too)

Yes, that’s really bizarre! That, along with a teachers having time to discuss these minor infringements with parents in order to recommend further punishments at home.

1. not being able to get in to the locker is the punishment. She doesn't need detention on top.

Having said that, I dont understand why there isn't a master key like most locker systems (eg swimming pools) would have.
I'd be making a copy of the key because what happens if it gets lost?

@OceanicBoundlessness DD was given 2 keys when she started, so I am assuming there is some sort of master key/system to get access if needed.

Well I wonder why the school wants to cause all the drama over a forgotten key of that's the case!
They shouldn't even need to phone home. Just open the flipping locker.

Talk about making mountains out of molehills.
What lesson is it teaching anyone?!
That only perfectionism is acceptable?
That's you must be punished for mistakes rather than just thinking well that was a bit embarrassing, I'll try not to do that again.

Well I wonder why the school wants to cause all the drama over a forgotten key of that's the case!

Because some schools (or school leaders) seem to be very, very convinced that being massively heavy-handed sticklers about all of the little, inconsequential things creates a school where kids respect the more important rules and buy into the overall ethos. I totally disagree. If kids think the rules are ridiculous and petty, they have less respect for the rules and those implementing them, even if they have to follow them. Sometimes the kids know full well that half the teachers don't agree with the draconian sanction system either.