People would be happy to pay more tax if it went directly to the NHS

[Blackcats7]

I think people would be happy to pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to the NHS.

I wouldn't, there needs to be reform first. Such a huge amount of wastage in procurement, it would be a waste to give more money as it is. Unless it could be ring fenced for training or new buildings.

No point pouring more money into a failing system without major reform

I want the NHS to be reformed so we have Scandinavian level quality health care. Or French or German. I'm sick of being expected to be grateful for the NHS.

I would. Yes the NHS has problems, but what it needs most is more money. I will never vote for a party that threatens to cut taxes, because taxes pay for the services that make a civilised society.

Agree above, so much waste at the moment that money alone can’t fix it

I can't stand this waste trope. The evidence is that we pay less for our health services than other countries. There will always be waste in the system. We can't avoid that. It's the lies that the Tories have been propagating for years and it doesn't work. In the end it means that services are just cut.

Apparently in our local hospital the former Chair of the Board owns a furniture company and has the exclusive contract to supply all hospital furniture. The audit office was called in and don't have a problem with it despite the fact that you and I could go out and buy it cheaper! Don't tell me that private companies would do things cheaper. Look what's happened in the US where people actually pay more for the same services because prices are artificially inflated. When I was in a private hospital they charged the insurance company £10 fifteen years ago for a small bottle of paracetamol.

Look also at all the privatised companies. We pay vastly more for rail services, water and sewerage etc and yet the services are no better. In fact my local rail services is regularly cancelled and there are a massive amount of leaks in the water system and there is more sewage in our seas than previously.

If you don't want to pay tax at least be honest about it. Admit you just want to spend more on yourself. But in return expect to have crumbling public services: roads with potholes, a police service that has given up investigating most crimes, massive waiting lists in the NHS including just not bothering to treat some illnesses. And don't be up in arms when you have to sell your house to pay for your own private social care. Because you've just reaped what you've sown.

It's not the country I want to live in. I want clean rivers and seas, a health service where even the vulnerable have access to decent healthcare, even the poorest of children having access to decent education, roads that aren't having to be closed all the time because they're falling apart.

The people I know who don't want to pay taxes have plenty of money. Several properties. Nice car. Long haul holidays. It wouldn't affect their lifestyle at all to pay a bit extra. But they've convinced themselves that it's fine to just care about themselves while everything falls down around us.

I have absolutely no issue with paying more tax but the NHS needs far more than simply having money poured into it!

The NHS does need reform but reform costs money and in the interim, it will still need to deliver services. I’d be happy to pay more to allow this to happen so everybody can access quality healthcare in a timely manner and working conditions and pay can be improved for staff.

But we are more taxed than we have ever been and there comes a point where the tax burden acts as a drag on the economy, so it’s becomes a law of diminishing returns. Just look at Birmingham city council !.

No I wouldn’t in its current state - just throwing good money after bad. The problem is the reform it needs will probably never happen because as soon as any government even looks at the nhs, people start crying about privatisation and how they’re selling off our national treasure and bla bla bla. It’s a vote loser

Essentially you won’t attract the best nurses who stay in the service if you don’t improve staffing, conditions or pay. Simple. You can reform it as much as you want and not put any money into it, still won’t solve the problem of not enough staff, poor working conditions and rubbish pay/progression. Tinkering at the edges, even introducing charges won’t magic up more staff.
Investment in staff if unavoidable if you want to improve things.

I would pay zero more of my money into the NHS unless I got detailed info about how it would be spent.

I was also thinking exactly the same thing about waste. So much of it. Even the little stuff that adds up.

My friend in the NHS was saying even things like staff putting too much stuff in the medical waste bins that can go in normal bins, but medical waste bins cost more to dispose of.

I was asked to take 1 tablet of something before my recent c section, the hospital pharmacy gave me a whole 28 pack and told me throw away the rest.

And they keep sending me letters reminding me to get my baby vaccinated, clearly giving zero fucks that appointments have been booked 4 weeks in advance to get the next set done!

Just imagine all the major waste that’s going on.

How much more would you put into the NHS, bearing in mind it’s over 40% of all government spending, and how would you pay for it ?.

I'm astonished by the negative vote so far. Throughout the "greedy" 1980s and the 1990s, British polls consistently showed people happy to pay more tax if it went to services like health and education. It was one of the things that made me proud to be a Brit.

I want clean rivers and seas, a health service where even the vulnerable have access to decent healthcare, even the poorest of children having access to decent education, roads that aren't having to be closed all the time because they're falling apart.

Me, too. I've visited and lived in countries with severe inequality and poor public provisions. It's horrible, and dangerous.

The NHS does need reform but reform costs money and in the interim, it will still need to deliver services. I’d be happy to pay more to allow this to happen so everybody can access quality healthcare in a timely manner and working conditions and pay can be improved for staff.

This.

Take a look here: the UK comes 17th on this list for healthcare expenditure: $5,493 per person, compared to $12,555 in the USA and $6,438 in Sweden for example. Chart in next post (I forgot to screenshot)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/

Chart

No, the NHS needs reform, not money. It was designed for another time.

Pointless pouring more money into it. You could throw 100% of everyone’s salary at it and it still wouldn’t be enough.

We spend $5,493 per person on health. How cheap do you want it reformed to?
$2,973 like Poland?
$1,640 like Colombia?
$212 like India?

Germany spends $8,011 per person 1½ times what we do.

I could write a book about the disorganisation and waste in just one hospital I worked in. If you hadn't seen it you wouldn't believe it. That was without/ before the huge fraud that was discovered in the finance department. That was particularly galling for thise of us that were exhausted from all the unpaid overtime.

The figures you are quoting are “total” health spend so not just what comes from government funding. It masks how much people pay individually. That’s why the US figure is so much higher.

Doesn't change the overall picture, does it, @TiredCatLady.

Every government we’ve ever had sets about changing the NHS. A big organisation takes approximately five years to recover from major changes. Successive governments use the NHS for a political vote winner, rather than acting in the best interests of the NHS and the people who use it. We need less interference from government and definitely not, more major changes.

The NHS is actually a very successful institution. This is evidenced by our ageing population. We’re all living longer due in part to the NHS. The ageing population is the biggest user of the NHS. Advanced technology also means there are more and more treatments available, which we all demand.

Every treatment costs money. We all need to pay more, of course we do, if we want all these expensive treatments. Otherwise, we have to lower our expectations.

Well, yes it really does - it is not comparing like for like. The chart is not adjusted for the relative costs in each of those countries. $212 in India will go a lot further than $212 in California. What percentage of the GDP does it represent? That figure for the United States, it qualifies represents a huge proportion of US GDP and is driven by the insurance system and paying $10 for a paracetamol. Paying more in doesn’t guarantee more out so how much is enough?

I would love the health-care system that the European country I'm from has. Every clinic, GP surgery and hospital is essentially a shop. Part-financed via taxes to cover the most essential of emergencies, life-saving medications, child-health and needs of those absolutely unable to pay (though most of the time a monthly payment of a small amount over a long time period is still expected). The rest can be paid by the patient or the insurance fully or partially.
The prices in the clinics are reasonable (no one would attend otherwise) and one can get a simple full blood count test for £15 or anything of fancy and the latest science for a couple of hundred (there literally is a tick-box system of what you want, just turn up).
Epidural during labour is £100 on request. I regret not giving birth there as the NHS are atrocious.
You can see any specialist consultant for £80-£100.
It's a fiver to see your GP - no one misses appointments.

The only drawback is a serious illness with no insurance as the medications and the hospital stays would add up. But medical and dental insurances are very common and not USA style expensive. It's somewhere between NHS and private - best of both worlds and you get treated like a paying customer who can vote with their feet if need be.

The care was much worse when it was fully state financed like the NHS.

Ridiculous argument which would equate to give them more waste more

reform first please
if your trying to fill a bucket with a hole in just turning the tap on faster won’t solve the problem fix the hole first