People would be happy to pay more tax if it went directly to the NHS

[Blackcats7]

I think people would be happy to pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to the NHS.

No matter how much money you put into the NHS it still won't work without complete reform.

Because it is free at the point of use there is absolutely no restriction on demand other than queuing. It is much like communist Eastern Europe where goods were heavily subsidised meaning demand always outstripped supply. In the absence of price to restrict demand it instead was restricted by queuing. The same thing is happening with the NHS.

In Victorian times the money rich had access to medical care but the money poor did not. That was and still is viewed as unacceptable.

Today the time rich have access to medical care but the time poor do not. So whilst that might work if you are retired, it doesn't work if you are a single mum in full time employment meaning medical problems get ignored until they potentially become much worse.

That said I would support higher taxes for the education system - just not the NHS.

Why do the NHS still communicate via mail. I mean it is spotty and some do actually use e mail and text, but many still don’t. You get an appointment in, say, 6 months, no reminders, and then people are surprised so many appointments are missed. Compare that with my (private) dentist, optician where everything is either text or e mail with a reminder the day before.

This. I have missed several appointments now because of the ridiculous old fashioned appointment system.

Don't send a letter dated 15th February for a 9am appointment on 16th. Even on a day the post service was working properly I'd get the letter at earliest at lunchtime on 16th (but the post is also shit so as it was I got it a week after my appointment)

I desperately need this appointment, but this is the third time in a row that letters have arrived after the appointment time, and if you phone you just get told 'we'll send you a letter' 🤬

It wastage like this that mean no I would not be happy to pay more tax, because you can complain that 1 in 15 people miss appointments at a cost of x per appointment, but a lot of those missed appointments are the fault of poor NHS processes. These are the kind of holes that need to be fixed in the bucket first

I work closely with the NHS but not in it. When people talk about reform what exactly do people mean? What specifically needs to change? and how do we deliver change in parallel with keeping things going until change is in place?

we know that hospitals account for the vast bulk of NHS funding but that the majority of people experience health care through primary care (GPs) but we’re haemorrhaging GP. We know that people keeping active and having a better diet would impact hugely on our collective health as a nation but people generally are becoming less active & diet isn’t improving. We know social care is in pieces impacting heavily on health system but because it’s funded out of local government, the national government ignores it apart from a few platitudes

tackling anyone of just those 3 is an enormous piece of work & change would take years to flow through the system and that’s just 3 off the top of my head - there are hundreds of other things that need to change

Reform isn’t fast I agree or cheap

I’m not sure we need a new model really as you could add certain things such as minimal charge or tax rebates for private healthcare as other countries fo

The trouble is both would probably go down badly at voting time

@1dayatatime What European health operation doesn't use a mainly "Free at the point of use" system?

I lived in Sweden, spend time in France, i didn't pay up front for treatment, unless you mean a GP appointment but that was relatively a v small amount.
France has some upfront costs but these are almost all re paid, so just adds admin into the system.

@Alexandra2001 ,

France isn’t quite like that. I don’t totally understand it, but there are copayments and most have work schemes they pay into (I think my relative pays £20-£30 per month).

Also there are tiers of specialists and he sometimes has to pay a bit to see a more advanced specialist.

It's wrong it just goes to the NHS first. I think with an aging population, we cannot ask the working population to fully fund it. Look at the numbers coming up. It wil have to be a partially private system. Look at Australia and Germany. (And possibly many other co-funding models).

Also, there are a lot of things not working, not just the NHS. Mental health, education, public transport, flood defence. Look at our local governments. I felt so sad hearing the cuts in Birmingham council. They have been laden down with historic lawsuit settlements and they now have to cut libraries, art funds, reduce bin collections.

Wow!
So many people believe still the tory propaganda that the problem is waste not chronic underfunding.
It’s such an easy excuse for them, much like Stop the boats.
I have worked decades in the NHS under labour and tory governments and the difference was noticeable.
The NHS is cut to the bone now. Yes of course there will be ways admin etc can be improved but the bottom line s that quality of care cannot help but be impacted by lack of funds.
I have also been under NHS services throughout the past 24 years as a patient and it is a very much more limited service these days because of sweeping cuts. Many non life threatening services now barely exist anymore.
Amazing that some want to focus on fat or old people as a root cause, another useful diversion tactic.
And as for the person who thinks I am entitled and rich enough not to worry about the cost of living crisis this made me laugh so thanks for that.
I am a medically retired nurse on a small pension and disability benefits. I have a very limited income but I would give up part of that for the greater good because I have seen the NHS from inside and out and I know that the money is desperately needed.
Those who want to keep their money for themselves let’s hope the NHS is still functioning for you if you get cancer or have a major accident etc.

Part of my career has literally been to save costs, including print and postage costs. I once saved £26k a year just by not sending a leaflet. And that’s one company.

Why are you thinking along the lines of employing ‘someone’ to go through all records? Surely by reform, we also mean processes need to be slickened. I don’t believe for a second that software can’t be implemented to link systems to stop sending appointment reminders once an appointment is booked.

And the amount of patients that must be asked to take a few pills prior to surgery (eg anti sickness) must be HUGE, so finding a process in place to only dispense one tablet instead of wasting 27 could be looked into.

You seem to think processes are acceptable as they are, but they are not, which is why the rest of us want reform. I really hope you don’t work in business.

Sorry to be clear Op, I’m not believing any ‘propaganda’ about waste. That’s quite insulting.

My concerns about waste have come from:

-Day-to-day experiences of my friends who work in the NHS
-My own experiences as a patient
-My knowledge based on my own career, which is currently to save costs and reduce debt in the industry I work in

I am not saying waste is purely to blame. Of course there is underfunding. But money is also being wasted and I don’t believe things will be fully resolved or efficient if we throw money at things and that money is pissed up the wall.

And yes I will want to ‘keep my money to myself’ until someone convinces me they’ll actually put it to practical use, which I think is fair.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, it most certainly is waste, I'm an NHS supplier and I see the enormous waste all the time. I try to be fair in pricing, but its hard as they make it more difficult to sell to them than anyone else with admin etc so something has to be added on for the extra time required.

I know other suppliers who take the Micky, one sells a product to the NHS for £17 per unit that is sold to schools for £0.99 per unit, just one example. There are lots of big corporate suppliers who simply take the mick.

I also know of a hospital that ordered £25K of random stuff from another supplier (that they will never use) just to clear a quarterly budget so they get the same next quarter.

There is more than enough money in the system, it just needs to be used properly and the top heavy management needs to be cut back and the focus put on care.

But turkeys don't vote for Christmas, so it's not going to happen.

THANK YOU

I remember my son’s appointment being cancelled on the day. I was notified by phone. I then got a letter in the post 4 days later to confirm cancellation of the same appointment. What a waste. Whole IT system needs an upgrade. If any politician says he wants to spend my money specifically on that, then he can have it.

Absolutely. Don’t forget the rainbow lanyards and pronoun badges.

I would pay more tax into a system of health, education and social care, that was efficient and effective.

It isn’t a question of believing Tory propaganda. We can see how wasteful the system is in the health service. Communication between primary and secondary services is poor and, no matter what you say OP, many people believe that efficiencies and savings can be made in terms of admin and processes, that would enable more money to be spent on the actual treatment of patients.

Unless we find a system that functions from primary care onwards, we will find ourselves, again, in a several tier system, where only the wealthy can hope to have good health.

Effective working in health care and education would attract more people to those professions.

Yes absolutely.

We spend far less than other countries.

I would prioritise taxes for education of the young over healthcare for the very old.

If someone is going to get us out of the huge mess our country is in it is our young people because it is going to take decades to sort.

Dear Lord, no! The NHS already wastes far too much money as it is (like pouring water into a bucket with a hole in the bottom). And many NHS staff would say exactly the same.
Now if it was spent on a proper Royal Commission to set up proper funding and management reforms (eg an insurance-style system), that may be worth paying for.

I would be happy to pay more tax in return for better services all round.

A level of reform is needed for all public services - our laws give us A* standards and they can’t be implemented for the money. It needs both money and a redesign.

I worked in IT, have you any idea what an IT system costs? try 100s of millions (billions if nationwide) and by the time its implemented, much of it is out of date.

The NHS also has the issue that databases have to easily accessed 24/7, there is no "our online services wont be available over this BH weekend"

Much of the NHS estate is old, it lacks basics like power, structured cabling, uninterrupted power supplies and you cannot fit all of that into a building that leaks or has damp issues.

Any new IT system also has to work with older databases and equipment.

So its not just a new bit of software from PC World.

If you work in cost cutting, you really ought to know this.

You want better IT? then there are very real costs, which atm have to come from patient care budgets.

I believe a private A&E is opening in London and I am sure someone will open an emergency private ambulance service soon….

HCA has run urgent care clinics (for non life threatening illnesses) at three of its London hospitals for a while. I have an abdominal issue, saw two consultants within three days and having a procedure today (a week later). I'd give up most things before my private healthcare. The NHS has become like a third world country.

My consultant friends would also vote for reform. Many people on this thread have spoken of the waste and I've seen it first hand as a patient on multiple occasions. There is also an appalling attitude of suck it up and be grateful for it from some NHS employees. The French or German systems sound far better.

No. The work with the NHS all the time. It’s an inflexible monolith that provides poorer outcomes than many of the alternatives. The level of waste and inefficiency is incredible.

Id rather break up the monopoly and move to a more European approach.

Please get stuffed with your ‘few bits of software from Pc world’ comment.

Every other company and institution sends me emails or texts. Not letters. It is doable and needs to be done. We are all agreeing investment is needed, we just need people to spend the money in the right areas. If we don’t invest, then no improvements will ever be made. But what we are saying is that any investment will be pissed up the wall as things stand.

I wouldn't. There needs to be major reform within the NHS first. Throwing money at the problem won't help, it needs restructuring and to reallocate existing funds from erroneous managers and waste into necessities. Then we can fill up the piggy bank.

I agree. The amount of funding that is wasted on ridiculous, non health related stuff is disgusting.

Anyone interested in how good an NHS under Labour could be, should look to Wales, described by Mr.Starmer as a blueprint for Britain.