People would be happy to pay more tax if it went directly to the NHS

[Blackcats7]

I think people would be happy to pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to the NHS.

I wouldn’t be prepared to just pay extra no questions asked.
I have had excellent care from the NHS. I have also worked for them and seen how caring individuals are and how hard they work.
There are some of the best medical professionals/skill sets and knowledge within the NHS.
however my son was at A & E yesterday- middle of the day so not a traditionally peak time. He had bloods taken and was given painkillers and sent to what he called a side waiting room
There was a man lying on the floor in this waiting room attached to a drip. There were other people in there in similar situations. There is something fundamentally wrong with the organisational side of things when things like this happen. It needs a rethink. Not all of it but parts of it. Not just change for change sake.
I would be happy to think about it if the funds were ringfenced for example for improvement to buildings but a big part of the problem is that people don’t trust that the government (any of them) will stick to what they say they will do

I wouldn’t be happy to be taxed more

The whole system needs changing, money doesn’t solve everything

A huge amount of money goes into the NHS, but it is very inefficient at managing money and resources.

I am a huge advocate for the NHS, but it does need reform or to somehow become more efficient than it is.

Throwing money into it, whilst it may help ease certain things to some degree in the short term, is not going to solve the underlying problems.

I don't think it's reasonable to throw more money at a system that desperately needs reform first and foremost.

We need to have a full and frank conversation about what the nhs is supposed to achieve in 2024 - and how it needs to change to do that and that should be funded. Of course tax increases should be part of that conversation, but there are lots of other things to consider too.

The NHS is one of the most efficient health services in the world the main place where it falls below others is on waiting lists. Our waiting lists are longer than other countries because we don't put in enough money.

Everyone has been convinced by the NHS being inefficient troupe and assumed they mean with money but not all efficiencies are financial. Sometimes problems CAN be solved by throwing money at them.

I agree with this. Same with schools, I'd love to see them increase their budgets hugely but the layers of spending at DfE and LAs before the money filters through to schools all needs reform first

Don’t committees and project managers for large scale healthcare reform themselves cost money though? How can the NHS be reformed by specialists and experts who understand healthcare if the NHS is already struggling from being underfunded in it core services with long waits for treatment?
No one is going to work on NHS reform for free.

It needs a lot of reform first and an honest conversation amongst the electorate about what it expects it to be and at what cost
nurses need to be valued and paid more and retained for sure but what a can of worms you open if you just try and ring fence that

The amount spent on the NHS has quadrupled in the last 25 years in real terms (ie after allowing for inflation). Mainly because of the challenges of an ageing population- older people need a lot more NHS resources (on average) than younger people.

Raising taxes isn't the magic answer. The system needs to be reformed.

It's not just about money - it's also the spending model. I live in an overseas country which has universal public healthcare, and as far as I can see the figures online, the spending is not that much different to the UK. Of course everyone has complaints here and there about their own system, but having experienced living here and living in the UK, the difference is night and day. If I need it I can almost always get a GP/paediatrician appointment the same day. There is a wait at A and E but nowhere near what people describe here. My 4 year old got a referral for ADHD diagnosis and the waiting time for the appointment was about 2 months. I can book pretty much every appointment via an app, access my medical records online. Etc etc etc.

So what is different about the system here that makes it more efficient?

• Internal competition - we have 4 not-for-profit providers (like 4 mini NHSs), and everyone belongs to one of them. All of them have to offer the same basic services but can also offer extra. It's possible to transfer between them. Therefore there is competition for good service.
• Healthcare isn't free at the point of delivery so people think twice about misuse. It costs something like £2 to see a doctor, £4 to see a specialist, £20 for out of hours centre, and there are penalties like a charge of about £200 if you go to A and E without a referral (you can get this via the equivalent of NHS 111 phone line; or if you arrive in an ambulance there is automatically no charge). Inpatient hospital care is free. Prescription charges are a certain percentage of the cost of the medicine (I think they are waived for things like insulin and cancer medication). Usually comes out at under £7 per item.
• There is optional add-on private insurance within the public system. It's not very expensive, about £20-30 a month, but gives you access to things like choosing a private specialist for certain things.
• There is a lot more emphasis on preventative medicine - you can get subsidised gym membership, "alternative" treatments like massages etc through your healthcare provider - because the healthcare providers are invested in keeping people healthy so they will cost them less money in medical treatment :)

I am similarly shocked that core training is only available for one in four junior doctors who apply. With limited chance of career progression DD is assuming she will either have to move to Australia or leave medicine. Especially as locum jobs are drying up as the NHS replace doctors with more expensive physician associates. (But won’t let unemployed doctors apply for those roles.)

The junior doctor strikes are described as being about more money. They are not. It is as much about the hours and conditions and professional opportunities. Given the level of stupidity I would not have faith that anything else in the NHS is any better.

If we throw more money at the NHS they will be able to bolster their army of diversity and inclusion managers, and take on more 'Lived Experience Directors' at over £110K a pop.

So all these people who don’t want to pay more tax, think the NHS is wasting money, blah blah negative blah.

what is the solution? The NHS going down the tubes and private healthcare like the fabulous private rail service and private energy companies? Cos that’s working well isn’t it ….

Tories have done a great propaganda exercise.

Why does the electorate need to be asked? People already voted for Brexit believing that the NHS would receive the extra funds saved from EU membership fees, so you could use that as a general mandate.

It’s very confusing for the general population to decide the reform because most lack specialist knowledge in healthcare for national populations. It’s better to reform from the point of view of achieving key national health measures such as reducing wait times, improving cancer success rates, reducing maternal deaths - that sort of thing. They tend to result in other tax savings especially in terms to improving national work productivity, reducing welfare spending and so on.

How about we started tackling obesity epidemic in the country? Two thirds of the UK population are either overweight or obese including 20% of primary age school children. Overweight and obese people are many-fold more likely to suffer from diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, all sorts of cancers, arthritis.... the list goes on. I am not blaming particular individuals, I am blaming successive Governments. The Conservatives designed a Childhood Obesity Strategy and then just buried it. I am a healthcare professional. I see it with my own eyes the disproportionate amount of money overweight and obese people cost NHS. I know I am not politically correct. However I would start with childhood obesity before trying to reform NHS for the umpteen time.

The more money we fling at it, the worse it seems to get.

No fucking way.

When any organisation believes it's entitled to an endless supply of other people's cash, there's no motivation to save money.

The wastage and lack of forward thinking in my trust is terrible.

I'm currently working in the NHS after the private sector. Pouring more money into this beast is a waste of time. The waste and inefficiency is gross. Look at how many clinical and patient hours a full time consultant delivers and you will be utterly dismayed. They have a day a week allocated just for CPD (development) but often amazing has them working on an evening or weekend developing themselves

I've seen lumps of money flush through the system. One issue is that it is all last minute so not properly planned, but the bigger issue is it is just wasted. They start paying huge bonus/incentive payments and over staff the additional clinics (unlike the private sector)

We need to start looking more at European and Australian integrated systems and get rid of stupid ideas from the 1940s such as GPs owing own practices that cannot be expanded to house integrated services without them demanding huge incentive payments

Honestly...if you saw inside you would be shocked

There needs to be a discussion. It doesn't have to be complex, but at its most basic principles.

Do we want a) to maintain current spending levels on health, in the full knowledge that this means we will have to scale down what the nhs is expected to deliver

Or b) provide higher levels of health provision in the full knowledge that this means the tax burden will have to increase.

The brexit point is not particularly relevant to this discussion as the money to be diverted to the nhs wasn't coming from people's own pockets.

It doesn't need more money, it's had billions. It needs reorganisation and better management. I worked in NHS for over 20 years in England and Wales so I do have experience. I'm hoping Wes Streeting will grasp the nettle when he's Health Sec, but no government has ever had the guts to do it.

I also think that we should look at Europe and Australia to change how our healthcare is delivered rather than just giving the NHS more money. After all doctors keep leaving the UK for Australia to get a better work life balance (according to the adverts I keep seeing on social media. Queensland really wants me to join them, and I would be tempted, if I worked in healthcare.) In fact, didn't Wes Streeting go to Australia and Singapore a few months ago to try and learn from their health systems?

Streeing has talked about how the NHS needs reform, though not so much recently.

I wouldn't. The NHS has plenty of money, it's just completely mismanaged and the torys siphon money off into their own pockets such as the PPE scandal.

It needs a complete review and all the fat trimmed.

I'm a NHS Nurse, I would 100%.
Most people who wouldn't vote tory...

Not sure about that …can you guarantee an appointment if this happened I’ve paid NI all my life never I’ll but on a few occasions that I have cannot get in dont think it will change no matter what maybe the government should stop spending billions on accommodation for people coming into the country illegally

Street it has talked a lot about it but the Corbynites hates listening to reform ideas. But he honestly does seem to "get it" that prioritising spending just won't deliver outcomes. The whole system is broken and overwhelmed. A large problem is that for years the NHS focused on internal recruitment as many job descriptions had "experience of the NHS" as an essential requirement. This meant that the current generation of managers are generally career NHS with no external experience of any change management if efficiency models. One I spoke to recently had gone from an admin clerk and didn't have a clue. However, being paid as an 8a (£50-57k) and they were utterly hopeless.

Unfortunately the only way is to slowly start to introduce private sector involvement to bring the expertise and drive to change and take on Consultants who if they don't like someone just refuse to do it. Ironically, these are the same consultants who work up the road a couple of days a week on private work within vastly different models of care and support, and which are vastly more efficient.