To not apologise when I meant what I said?

[MotherOfOlafs]

MIL round for Sunday lunch last week, all very pleasant to start with. MIL always has a lot of comments about others appearances which we tend to ignore as rising to it just seems pointless. Until during lunch she told us about a woman she’d seen at a restaurant who had some facial hair. She then told us she’d taken a photo of this lady obviously without her knowledge and sent it to some friends who’d then ‘made some very funny comments’. She was laughing her head off while she was telling us this. To be perfectly honest it made me furious and I replied ‘I didn’t realise you were such a nasty bully MIL’.
The rest of the day was spent in silence pretty much. She now won’t speak to any of us (fine with me but DH is upset). He’s asked if I’ll consider apologising. I honestly don’t think I should, especially as this all went on in front of DD14 and I would never want her to think this behaviour is excusable.

Good for you!!! She's not speaking to you all now as she's likely embarrassed that someone has finally called her out. Do not apologise, you've done nothing wrong at all.

Is your MIL 12?? I'm gobsmacked that an actual adult would be such a knob.

Op you were completely right! Well done. It's so amazing when nasty behaviour is robustly called out. You're an inspiration.

People bend over backwards to excuse toxic female behaviour
I agree with you that there are at times double standards on MN. Men are sometimes vilified & women excused

But not always.

If a man had done what MIL had done everyone would have pitchforks out
I'm struggling to see where you have found ANYONE here supporting MIL. Most are wholeheartedly backing OP.

I don't care if speaking the truth is 'unpleasant'. Perhaps is is for people who can't see in front of their nose!
More unpleasantness. It's not 'the truth' to universally insult a whole swathe of posters by calling them 'mealy-mouthed hypocrites' it's just nasty.

I think DH needs to grow a spine and say that he agrees with her comment rather than want to pacify his dreadful mother.

What a nasty woman MIL must be. I would not tolerate anyone in my family boasting about doing such a horrible thing.

You don't need to apologise OP.

No, we often can't think of the right wording under pressure. So if we continue to practice and acknowledge when we have gone wrong, we are more likely to get the perfect wording under pressure as it becomes more natural to do.

I do not think what MIL did was right. however, nor do I think ops way of tackling it was right.

More importantly, I think the only thing OP has done is to make her mil now hide such things from her. Additionally, OP has now got a split in her family (Talking about her and her dh here) Had Op considered how she called mil out she may have managed to get Mil to see why it was wrong and why Mil should not do so in front of her teen granddaughter.

As for MIL being an adult. Plenty of people on MN seems to think its fair and right to call out others for being " wrong" because they have a different opinion (I say wrong but only because I am choosing to not use the sort of words they pick) so we see plenty of examples of people who are bull in a china shop about how they behave. MIL needs teaching often the best way to teach is to do so patiently.

That is a dreadful thing to do to a complete stranger. You are 100% correct OP. People get away with terrible behaviour because they are not pulled up for it.

Brava!

It's not a question of not believing the OP, it's a matter of sheer common sense... you know? If you read the OP's post it's obvious that the OP wasn't there when the photo was taken - so how can she possibly know for sure whether the woman was aware of the MIL taking the photo or not? Oh, of course, MIL is George Washington and could 'never tell a lie' could she? Someone with MIL's tact and discretion is obviously a great loss to the Diplomatic Service (love the 'take it up with her' bit, by the way!😂 😂)

Oh how I wish sentences like this would come to mind in the moment!

If more people called out bullies the world would be a better place.

Yuck, I would be disgusted by someone behaving that way in front of me and angry if they did it in front of my kids. You were right to speak up.

So no, you shouldn't apologize for your message. But you can apologize for the way you delivered it (namecalling was not necessarily ideal) while emphasizing how appalled you were by the behavior. And then lay down boundaries - you won't sit there silently while someone behaves like a bully and will remove yourself and your children from the situation if your MIL is commenting on peoples' appearances.

"I don't think it's ok to speak about people like that. Please stop."
"Every time you speak about other people in such an ugly way it makes me wonder what you say about me behind my back."
"Taking pictures of people to spread around and laugh at is bullying behavior and I'm not going to engage in it."
"MIL, we'll have to end this visit if comments about peoples' bodies continue."

And I would have a talk with your DC about what they heard and why what MIL did wasn't ok.

Well done for speaking up. I guess you could say sorry bully might not have been strictly correct if she was not aware what I should have said was arsehole.

I'd have said something too. Letting family members say awful things in front of children is not acceptable.

Not as bad - but both DH and MIL are incredible 'gossipy' about people's private lives. I've mentioned it to him once or twice, but a few weeks ago they were sitting in a room with my teenage DCs, speculating about DH's cousin's financial situation. As in 'well she has a good job, you wouldn't think they'd have much of a mortgage, her DH will get something when his Dad dies, how much do you think their pensions will be ' etc etc. For about half an hour.

I was cooking sunday lunch but popping in and out. In the end I had to call them out and say it was appalling how they were so nosey about something that was none of their business, and they couldn't possibly know all the wider issues that could affect this family's situation, and why so interested? I said it was horrible and a really bad example for the children. I was really cross, but I don't think they got it at all.

Of course we all do it to some extent - but 'she has a good job, hopefully they are settled financially' was all it needed. Not endless permutations.

The same with your MIL. She could have (unkindly, but humanly) said to whoever she was with 'did you see the lady by the window?' and had a giggle. Mean but probably normal. But taking unauthorised photos and sharing them with others is absolutely horrific! I'm not sure if it is actually bullying as hopefully the poor woman was unaware - but it's way over the boundary of acceptable behaviour, and just 100% horrible.

Good for you for calling her out on it!

Given that she sounds awful (at least at times), it would be no great loss if you saw less of her. I wouldn't apologise. One might hope that this could be the shock she needs to realise how ugly her behaviour sometimes is, but people rarely change, and she's obviously lashing out rather than learning how others may see her.

I'd tell your DH can see her as and when he wishes and that you're willing to let it drop (until the next time she spouts her bile), but she'll have to accept that you're not going to pretend to be sorry for speaking your mind, just as she apparently does so freely.

That is horrible! She is a nasty bully and you absolutely shouldn’t apologise.

Good on you. The laughing is one thing but taking the picture and sharing it with friends is just despicable. She sounds like an incredibly unpleasant human being. I'd want her kept at an absolute distance

From the title I thought you should maybe apologise depending on what outcome you wanted, but now I’ve read what happened, you’re a hero!

Disgusting behaviour in front of your child

You are absolutely 100% correct in pulling her up on this - what a nasty piece of work. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with her, which is probably easier said than done as she is your MIL.

Does she realise in certain circumstances bullying people because of their appearance is actually illegal and considered as discrimination? It sounds as though she needs some education about bullying and maybe you could offer to point her in the right direction, and if she's willing to change her ways, then possibly you might consider making amends.

Don't apologise. MIL is a nasty bully and that sort of behaviour in front of your children is unacceptable. DH needs to stand by you.

yes. A friend called me out in school when I was younger and it made me mind my mouth.

So true, BirthdayRainbow.

What MIL - aka the bully - doesn't like is that she's been called out on her lousy behaviour and can't cope with hearing the truth.

What the actual fuck? How to give your daughter a complex about her appearance or what? How could someone be so cruel. I hope your MIL gets caught doing this next time and has to apologise.

No, don’t apologise. She should be setting an example not playing mean girls. You were polite, I would have been much ruder.