To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

Thank you so much @Salmonyumyum for your kind and thoughtful message. I really appreciate it and understand all the points you make.

I think what terrifies me is the thought of being 'alone' one day. That sounds like such a scary and cold place to be, and it's what I can't get myself over.

If you are CF (and do not have other dependents) your day off is actually your day off.

Yeah, no, we still have housework and chores to do and worries to worry over. The scale might be less because we don't have multiple small children, but I really do not recognise the stereotypical image of the childless woman swanning merrily about, always groomed and suited and booted, taking her time because she has nary a thing to do but to sit beneath the rising sun, smiling into her relaxing morning tea, thinking of her twice-weekly spa appointment... etc etc etc.

One of my colleagues actually used the bolded text as an argument - which she put forward officially through a suggestions channel - that childless people should have their leave reduced because we "actually have a weekend", and parents should have theirs increased because they "never get any time off". Thankfully nothing came of it but these kind of tired images can actually be quite harmful.

It's so frustrating to see the same old stereotypes trotted out and then not two posts later: "we should all be supporting women!"

🤔 you know @fitzwilliamdarcy I did experience a considerable part of my adult life as a child free person…. In fact, more than I’ve spent with children.

This isn’t a stereotype….. now my days off are taking kids to birthday parties, activities, days out, helping with school, endless washing, tidying, haircuts, dentist… you get the drift.

Whenever I was CF if I wanted to spend a Saturday with friends and to attend an event off I went… now I have to book it 2-3+ months in advance. It isn’t a stereotype it’s reality.

My CF friends are sitting relaxing by about 7.30-9pm at night, unless they have work to complete (which I know because this is when they all message - bedtime for kids). I’m done by about 11.30-12 and am up an hour earlier.

Don’t be absurd regarding that image… I was and my friends are very busy, but generally housework is mostly done by the weekend, and there is an evening to unwind in. I get about 5-6hrs sleep!

I don’t know why I should be lying about my experience as a child free person and my friends 🤷‍♀️I have no interest in inventing narratives to fit stereotypes. All I know is reality.

My friends are amazing, always ask about my DC and have even included them to allow me to get out and spend time with them. Equally I am supportive of all of their endeavours and ask about their families and partners. We should all be supporting each other.

Your life isn’t representative of all mothers. I have been a single parent and I am not rushing around doing stuff until midnight. I’d be wrecked. Most of my friends and I joke about how we all like an early bedtime now we are mid 30s compared to the all nighters we pulled 15 years ago - this is true of my friends who have children and those who don’t.

I assume your friends are loaded. Who are these people who afford regular spa trips? Even my decent earning DINK friends don’t have endless pots of money for luxuries. Perhaps I move in less rich circles. Sure some people get regular manicures and some people do stay up late but I don’t recognise my friends or colleagues in what you’ve said at all.

@Tahinii

3 days childcare for one child is about 10k a year. Full time 15k.

Getting gel nails (£40) done or a massage (£80) twice a month is between £960 - 1920 a year.

It isn’t that extravagant. It’s the time to do it and money not having to be spent on kids.

Spa treatments being cheaper than childcare doesn’t mean that they’re somehow super affordable for all childless people, though.

Presunsbly once you’re not paying childcare you’ll be able to join your friends in their not-that-extravagant £2000 per year grooming. By contrast, for my SINK household that’s a lot of money and not doable in my budget (now or for the foreseeable future).

That’s why I feel like you’re stereotyping. I’m not saying your friends aren’t real, but they’re not representative of the general childless population.

But there are no guarantees for anyone . Families can move away, sometimes there can be arguments and people stop contact, sometimes contact just stops through other things going on in life . Sadly some people will lose families members of both their own and younger generations to illness, accidents etc.

The fact that there are no guarantees for anyone in the future - or even how long our own future will be - is why it's important to focus on living your life the best it can be in the present .

@Robinni but unless you have a large family with big gaps in between the ages of your children, the period you are talking about in terms of your time given to doing things for your children is relatively short.

At some point you will come out the other side and your life will be remarkably similar to that of your childfree friends again .

@fitzwilliamdarcy sad today but after school childcare costs persist, extracurricular activities and other costs take over. For some they are paying school fees (hopefully not us!!).

Fair point on you being a single income household. All my friends are DINKs… which relates to the thread.

I know it may seem if you are an only child that you may end up alone one day but families and partners aren't any form of guarantee you're not going to be lonely. There are so many variables in life, you could be non-contact with siblings, they may die early, they may move away, you can split up with a partner, children can move away, children can fall out with you - the list is endless.

I have a child, husband, siblings (who I don't speak to) and large extended family yet I don't think I'm any less likely to be lonely in my old age than someone who doesn't have these things. I've absolutely no idea what the future will hold. I didn't choose to have children as some sort of insurance policy for the future and I hope they go off and make the most of what life can offer them than hang around with me all the time when I'm older!

I think some sort of counselling or support would be useful to help you untangle your anxieties about what "alone" actually means and how you can help re-train your mindset.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea

Again, and this may purely be my point of view from the background I’m from….

But I will be involved with DC up until Uni years supporting them with their academics and extracurricular pursuits… then either there my be grandchildren and I want to be invested in contributing to their lives if possible.

Also one of DC is disabled so I would expect will be doing a lot for them well into adulthood.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea @Senzafine Thank you both. I absolutely appreciate what you say about there being no guarantees in life. I really wish I could be happy again (I was up until about 14 months ago when this worry took over my life).

I think for me being 'alone' means having no support - either emotional or practical. Most significantly when my parents die. It means things like spending Christmas alone, dealing with health problems alone, then one day dying alone, perhaps after a long hospital stay in which I have had no visitors. It just seems like a very sad and bleak future over which I have no control.

I know plenty of women with kids in that age bracket who feel lost and lonely since their kids moved out, went to uni. They have drifted apart from their partners and on some level realise they are fast hurtling to old age and have little to show for it for themselves. Their personal dreams have been put on hold while they raised a family and they have lost the thread of who they are. They have lost skills they once had and not developed them as they took work that fitted around the family but its not very fulfilling and often not lucrative.

The friends they had when they were younger have often drifted away and as they kids grow up and start their own lives often in different parts of the country they find they have little left in common with the women they used to think of at their friends, all they really had in common was their kids were friends. Their lives are small boring and lonely, its quite likely that their adult children will not live locally or have kids until they are too elderly to really have much fun with them and they are left wondering why they even bothered sacrificing their dreams to have kids.

So if you got this far you will know that is all horseshit, but you can put any spin on anything and make it sound awful, sad whatever just like the OP did.

@Strawberriesandpears

You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.

You are building anxiety for yourself based on scenarios that may or may not play out.

All of this is due to the grief you are already feeling at your parents loss. I really do understand the bond between only children and parents is extremely close.

You really need to get proper trauma therapy/grief counselling, whichever you can access, going on a weekly basis.

GP can prescribe anti-depressants, beta-blocker for panic attacks, sleeping tablets etc, but all of this may impede your ability to act as carer.

Just focus on the now and what you can do to get through every day and getting through your grief and eventual bereavement - that is enough!!

The weight of your parents illness on you is immense, it is impossible, and entirely natural to not be able to think clearly, to feel intense anxiety, and to not feel like socialising - that is 100% normal and ok.

You need to give yourself permission to feel like this and just focus on the now. Genuinely get that book I was mentioning - how to be present, Sarah Golding - it isn’t too wordy, and has lots of ideas to take care of you. Calm app is good too.

Thank you @Robinni I am actually already on anti depressants but they aren't helping (although I haven't been taking them for long). I am also about to start talking therapy. Will have a look at the book you mentioned too. Thanks again.

Also @Strawberriesandpears and this is so important.

Whenever the time comes you may feel life irrevocably changed and you may feel alone but I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart that it will get better and there will be good times again.

As much as you may now or later try to convince yourself otherwise, eventually the grief becomes something you can accommodate and you will experience joy again.

Please hold onto that hope, be good to yourself, get all the support you can. You are so very young to be dealing with all of this with both parents. I wish you all the kindness, everything will be ok eventually, just keep on pushing through.

Take care.

Thank you very much @Robinni

Still assumed it was mums. Don't anymore, but before I was here I assumed it was where women with children went to gossip (fascinating word when you look into it!) and share information on the internet.

It’s also famous (or infamous according to some people) for feminism, especially feminism linked to women’s sex-based rights.

(Sex as opposed to gender)

Well we are a DINKWAC then, we have a cat! - why initially? I was told at 16 by a professional that any children I would have would likely be disabled, so I made a grown up decision to be child free and have built a happy life around that, my partner and I travel the world and have so much fun! (Almost 50 and no signs of slowing) you would be surprised how many mothers say the words “I love my children but, if I had my time again I wouldn’t do it” and then beg me not to say anything (of course I wouldn’t) OP is being very unreasonable, but I think she needs to get out and meet some DINKs (oh and by the way, I don’t hate kids, I think they are great! - except when they are screaming in restaurants)

"Not goady but aren't my life choices just soooo much better than my friends??"

Nob.