To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

Agree. Dog ownership is predominantly associated with the family unit, "kids wanted a puppy" etc.

Interestingly, my childless/free friends tend to have more low-maintenance pets or they have lifestyle-centred animals like horses, or small farm animals. None have dogs!

‘that there is something weird about not having kids but having a dog.’

er, no. I have pets, dog included. I think it’s odd that there’s now bring your dog to the cinema sessions! And I’m going with friend, but leaving my dog home because I think it’s more hassle than it’s worth bringing it!

But go ahead, pile on about how unreasonable I am to think taking pets to the cinema is unusual etc … flips sake.

Sneering at childless people treating their dogs as if they were a substitute for human children - such as by taking them to cinemas etc - is a done to death thing on here, OP. That's why people assume your sudden switch to describing your DINKWAD friend's invite was yet another dog whistle. (After all, it has no relevance whatsoever to your thread.)

But I'm sure you'll say you were unaware of that narrative as well.

They're grown adults, they don't need supervision? Your attitude is so odd.

It’s very sad when I look at photos of them now visiting the Taj Mahal and doing fabulous things for themselves in their 30s-50s I just burst into tears because in simplistic terms their decision to prioritise this for themselves over family life, meant very negative consequences for me during my 30s

This was a horrible post too. Your relatives had no responsibility to have children to save you a job. Equally you had no responsibility to look after them in their old age, but it sounds like you feel you did.

So why is your friend being child free an issue that you have to mention? It’s a bit boring tbh.

That your friend is childfree can’t be the most significant thing about her in your eyes, can it?

And I apologise if my post feels like a pile-on. I hate pile-ons. I can see that my tone might give that impression, though.

@Robinni, for many years they were alone, and now they have a private carer who comes 6 hours a day, plus a visiting carer who comes a couple of afternoons a week

@fedupwithbeingcold

This sounds like they are being well taken care of, absolutely worlds away from U.K. home care. I’m glad for you that this is in place. Thanks for responding (I just wondered how things were being managed and what provision was like elsewhere).

‘So why is your friend being child free an issue that you have to mention?’

Well, DINKWADs were mentioned and she happens to be one. Shes also the only friend with a dog who has suggested taking it to the cinema. Thats all.
I’m more surprised that there are now film screenings where you can take your ( non-service) dog. She is one of those people who take dog everywhere - to the point. Where we only meet at dog friendly places, incl. restaurants. Then wonders why it’s not happy at home alone for more than an hour… but that’s a whole other thread .

I like dogs. I’m also curious as to what the hell a cinema full of dogs looks like, so I’m going! It’s a film that I’m not dying to see particularly… just in case…

@innerdesign

Please see the response from @fedupwithbeingcold - if family are not available someone has to be in place to look after elderly adults. This is a fact. I was interested in what provision was like in a different country.

What was horrible was that my relatives did not seriously look at the implications on others for their choices. If just one single person or set of DINKs it is usually manageable. But our family was so top heavy that it was harmful to younger generations.

And their close associations were largely with each other and age matched peers - what use is that when you’re 80-90… they are of no use!!

I repeat - all lived in suitable accomodation, they all had cleaners, gardeners, every possible convenience you could think of to maintain independence. Pots of money.

It made no difference, most did not die suddenly, each went through a period of decline lasting 18m-3yrs, no sooner had we buried one the next was heading downhill, some overlap as well, we have still not managed to wade our way through sorting out all of their effects.

No matter what solicitors they’d instructed, the medics and care home staff etc always come looking for a family member to handle things…. And solicitors can not do a lot of the stuff like spending the afternoon shopping in M&S for clothing or running to some favourite cake shop to bring them a bit of joy.

Where family or close capable friend doesn’t show up there is a lot of suffering and unmet need (no matter how much money you have and how many solicitors you instruct)…. We aren’t assholes and wouldn’t have abandoned them to suffer in their final years when so vulnerable.

@Aintbaint Where we only meet at dog friendly places, incl. restaurants. Then wonders why it’s not happy at home alone for more than an hour… but that’s a whole other thread

You don't sound like much of a friend OP. Clearly you're judgemental in all aspects of your life.

@Robinni PP didn't specify that her parents were elderly, so I wondered why you asked who was with them. Turns out they actually do need support, but that wasn't a given. And yes, you are repeating yourself and I've heard it all before. I don't find it a convincing argument. You seem to not be able to understand that I hear you, but I don't agree.

Thank you very much to everyone who has kindly replied to me.

I feel so much shame that I have no family and that I will be a burden on someone in my old age (should I make it that far). Whether that is NHS staff, care home staff, a friend or a solicitor. I feel a constant sense of dread and doom, and if I am honest, terror at my situation. And I have possibly decades to worry about this (I am 37 currently). I just have no idea what to do.

To make matters worse, I spoke to a counsellor about my worries (as an introductory kind of chat to see if he would be able to help) and one of his suggestions was to book a ticket to Dignitas (assisted suicide) before I got old. I mean, it's an idea and it would solve my problem, but I still find the whole idea terrifying - getting on a plane on my own and flying to my own death in a foreign country. Then I would also have to work out what to do with my body as I have no family to sort that for me. Although that is an issue no matter how I meet my end. I have been investigating direct cremation lately and looking into paying for it in advance.

@Strawberriesandpears

You need urgent mental health support the way you are thinking is symptomatic of depression, and of the situation you’re dealing with with your parents.

A loving, caring, reciprocal relationship does not create a burden on either party. Work on your mental health and making connections.

NHS staff, care home staff, solicitors are paid to do their jobs.

Please see your GP.

@innerdesign if PP is not available there has to be some sort of plan regardless of whether needed now.

Everyone should have a plan.

I asked what that was if PP not there 🤷‍♀️

You can disagree if you want. All I have shared is the reality of my lived experience. Rather than my perception of what things might be like. This is what they were like for me and my relatives, and residents I cared for.

@Strawberriesandpears

It must be awful to have those anxieties but I mean this in the nicest way, I would perhaps look at a new counsellor. Being told to go to Dignatas I can't see is helpful to your situation.

You are only 37, you could be alive for another 50-60 years which is a lifetime to build connections or even build a life you want for yourself. Yes it's good to have plans in place for when you die, but at your age its a shame this consumes you like it should.

There's no guarantees in life. You seem to have resigned yourself to "dying alone" or being alone when you're older when you've still got so much life ahead of you! I have siblings but I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire so they won't be providing support to me! Likewise I have a child and may have more children but I'm not having them as some insurance policy to keep me company when I'm old or to prevent me dying alone. For all I know they could move halfway across the world when they are older!

Have children because you want to have them, don't be put off because there is no extended family. Equally choosing not to have childen because you don't want them is an equally valid choice.

I work with older adults assessing them for care. Families are no guarantee of anything. Support comes in all forms and from all areas in life. Just because you don't have children or are only child, it doesn't mean you are destined for a life of loneliness. Many people have can have huge families and still be incredibly lonely. I really hope you get the support to help you manage these anxieties.

"Then wonders why it’s not happy at home alone for more than an hour… but that’s a whole other thread ."

God help us.

Thank you for your kind reply @Senzafine I am particularly interested to hear your work involves assessing older people for care. Would you mind sharing the kind of support you see people receiving from outside their family, please? Is it close friends, close former work colleagues, people they have met through volunteering / charity work - that kind of thing.

The thing that upsets / unsettles me most, is that I feel that there is nothing I can do to 'solve' my problem. I will always have it hanging over me until I die. I have read a lot on here (and elsewhere on the internet) about older people without family - and it is really mixed. Some people say that close friends can be as good as family, whilst others say that friends always come second.

I am quite a decent person, I think. I am friendly, do things for others and although I have a quiet kind of personality, I am actually reasonably popular and well liked. For example, I have made quite a lot of friends at work who reach out to me. In fact, I am always answering little messages on Teams etc from people asking how I am. This has especially been the case recently as I have been going through a tough time with the illness of one of my parents. Is this a good sign for the future do you think? (Not that these people specifically will be there for me in my older years of course - they are all a bit older than me anyway, but that I am a likeable kind of person?).

Thank you again for your reply.

@Strawberriesandpears by the time you become elderly society may have changed beyond all recognition. It might be a more human caring space that is not so nuclear-family-centric. Society may take better care of its elderly. I can but dream.

However, speaking of nuclear…putin may have blown us all up before you even get to be elderly so we’ll all be in the same boat.

Thank you for your reply. And yes, I have definitely considered that your second point could be a possibility!

I mean, in fairness, I have several DC, no interest in whether anyone else has one, none, or ten, and this is irrelevant to the fact that I've never seen a "dog" viewing at the cinema.

@Strawberriesandpears The thing about reading things on the Internet is you are going to get mixed responses because people's lives are different and everyone has different experiences.

My advice would be to stop looking externally for solutions such as other people's stories or visiting dignitas and start looking at some sort of support to help re-train your mindset and to work through your own anxieties.

You are still young yet your wasting energy worrying about something that might not even happen. Instead of obsessing over something a part of your life that is 50 years away, start focusing on how you want to life to look like and the things that will give your life purpose and meaning. Connections will forms organically throughout your life. Life is precious and you don't want to get older and realise you wasted it worrying about things that are completely outwith your control.

I've had crippling anxiety and I understand going down google rabbit holes trying to find stories and solutions to your problem but even you don't think it, you can solve your problem. There is help and support out there. I have a child and siblings and a large extended family yet I'm not in contact with half of them and having these doesn't mean I'm any less immune to loneliness than those without these things. I really hope you manage to find the support you need.

I would also add that very few people in my family lived to even be 70, so I would encourage you all to not take for granted that you will live to a ripe old age. Do your best to be happy and live meaningfully right now, growing old is a privilege.

@Senzafine Thank you for your kind reply and wise thoughts and advice.

@CatsWillRuleTheWorld Thank you too. That is very true and I have thought a lot about how nothing in life is guaranteed (although that doesn't do great things for my anxiety either!).