To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

This conversation has certainly turned miserable, hasn’t it?! I agree with everyone saying that we all need to plan and build our networks so that we’re not having to ask too much of family members, whether they’re our own children or extended family.

Otherwise, we could create ridiculous situations such as @Robinni describes-one younger person having POA for say five elderly adults, which is unrealistic.

I hadn’t thought about this, tbh, but in our immediate family , we have two teenagers and seven of us ranging from late 40’s to late 50’s (siblings and spouses). In 20-30 years, there’s no way that the two teens could help everyone out, be the main family contact (for a care home, for example) or act as financial/health Attorneys for all of us, it would be so unfair. I do this just for my Dad and it can be time-consuming, plus emotionally draining.

So we all need to build other connections and plan as much as we can. 🤷

It hadn’t even occurred to me that my niece & nephew might be landed with that job. They’re lovely kids & I’ve left almost everything to them jointly but they live on the other side of the country & I wouldn’t say we were close.

This thread has at least been a useful reminder to think about sorting out a power of attorney in plenty of time.

@EmpressaurusOfTheScathingTinsel Yes, planning early is definitely better. I was just using our family as an extreme example if we don’t think it through,

I wouldn't say my DM had a catastrophic accident! She broke her hip, it didn't really bother her at all, and after nine weeks in hospital they were ready to send her home (she could walk just as well as before by then). However, I had already noticed that she wasn't coping well at home and had meetings with the needs assessment team who agreed that she needed to go into care. It was all very easy. She had a choice of several homes - twice, as the one she was in originally closed due to falling numbers.

I'm not in the UK, but it seems to me that your care home system needs looking at. Here, whether you have money or not, you can go into the same home, and in my town at least there always seems to be a vacancy. There are also a lot of units like my father lived in (too many - his has been for sale for over a year!). Of course there are people who live at home, with help and carers, but in my experience more people go into care. I read some awful stories on MN about the state some people are living in, it's very sad and I for one would hate to live like that.

As for churches, obviously they need to know about you so you would have had some sort of association with them, but they certainly don't care if you haven't contributed money or time and help. There are also various other social organisations who will offer help and support.

On the other side of this argument older people are more likely to be mentally, physically or financially abused by an adult child or grandchild but no one ever says to parents why would you want your child around after you turn 65 when there’s an increased chance they will abuse you.

Bad situations can happen to anyone regardless of circumstances, but it would be stupid to make an up to 90 year decision based on that.

I think life is what you make it , just reading here shows you how stressful families can be so irrelevant of blood ties as long as people have meaningful connections they'll be fine .

I know several people who are in their 60s and 70s and their children either moved to the other end of the country or another country altogether. One parent has a daughter who lives 9 miles away and the daughter visits once a month and she hasn't seen her 4 grandchildren since Christmas. So having kids and grandkids won't mean uou won't be left aside lonely.

People who don't have kids usually don't feel lonely because they enjoy their peace and their own time. I'd be happier going to a cinema or out for coffee myself than with company. And I think your friends will find hobbies or just keep travelling as thats what they enjoy

I have DC, I had them in a marriage and I had them late in biological terms.
Before that, i was perfectly happy with the thought of not having them and now even though I love them, I am divorced and giving them all I can takes a lot of emotional energy, financial resources and time.

I have sat in for many years every night in my forties as they were too young to leave and resources and friendships were not there in order to go out.

Do I feel that my DC will be around in my old age? Probably not, as we as a society become more and more selfish. Do I want to look after grand children? Absolutely not.

I could never regret my children but it is a hard path to work fulltime and be a single parent that I wouldn't have chosen and not having dc would mean that I would have enough money to have a decent retirement, I could move wherever I wanted, I could change jobs without much thought about the consequences of school pick ups/after school activities and I could have interesting foreign holidays and go out more without thinking about money, so yes I can understand people not having children.

Sadly though I feel this trend is impacting more the people like myself in the middle to higher earners, those that don't get many (if any benefits) and can see how much it it is going to impact their financial resources and even though 'they have done well' don't want to work to achieve that and then see it all disappear on supporting children and not have any of the lifestyle that has been worked hard for.

I think a lot of adults now still benefit from an extensive extended family....aunts, uncles, cousins etc. However I feel like as times move on the current younger generation and their future children will not have these. People have much smaller families anyway. I know a woman with absolutely tons of aunts/uncles and cousins. Her DC has one cousin and unlikely to have many more as one parent is an only child. It's an interesting societal change of nothing else

I know quite a few people who’ve moved away themselves after retirement. They’ve finally got the funds and can live wherever they want and why not, eh?! Life is for living.

I think a lot of adults now still benefit from an extensive extended family....aunts, uncles, cousins etc. However I feel like as times move on the current younger generation and their future children will not have these.

I think the same.

I wonder if a few generations will then be caught in NHS and state services expectations where there they expect there to be family of some sort to coordinated or do elder care or take on legal and health responsibilities. Similar to how many primary schools despite being full of working women - sometimes mothers - still seem to frequently operate on assumption there's a SAHM despite most mothers working.

Families are more scattered and often not as closely bonded but are wider than just children but I think family care is often invisible and often just riled on to be there when crisis hit - so having plans and planning for worse should probably be done a lot more by everyone.

A little while ago I got talking to a woman who was hobbling around on sticks. She wasn’t that old - perhaps in her sixties. She told me that her children couldn’t help her out because they lived too far away. when I asked her where they live I was horrified when she told me the area of London they live in - about a mile away from her. And she never sees them because they live too far away!

I wouldn't judge a family you don't even know based on the comments of a stranger. There are many valid reasons why someone might not choose to see a parent.

You saw a little old lady hobbling around on crutches, but for all you know she was an abusive parent.

Or for all you know they help her out lots, but she likes to tell people that they don't.

I am childfree because I never wanted children, and I firmly believe that children should be wanted if you are going to have them.

However, even if I did want children, I would be having serious second thoughts, knowing that we live in a world where the sea temperature is doing this:

https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/

The climate is fucked, and it is future generations that will suffer for it. The earth cannot sustain 8 billion people.

I think that's fair. The 'woman hobbling around on sticks' is being presented implicitly as the elderly, vulnerable, innocent victim of ungracious, uninterested adult children, but we simply don't know what the internal dynamics of that family are.

This is definitely happening in our family, @Comedycook. It’s not a bad thing, just a societal shift as most of my generation have chosen to be childfree. So there’s two teenaged siblings and no cousins!

I won't deny, I am massively worried about my future.

I am an only child (as is my partner). I am in my mid-late 30s, and whilst I would love a child, I don't feel it would be fair to them, as we just wouldn't be able to give the child any extended family. I think in not having children I am being selfless, rather than selfish (as some might accuse me of). I only met my partner fairly recently too, so it isn't like I have deliberately put off having children.

For those who are saying you will rely on your children in old age, please don't underestimate the pressure this will put them under, especially if they are an only child. I am just starting to experience declining health of my parents and as an only child, I feel under a huge amount of pressure (even though I don't even have to provide much support at the moment). It consumes my thoughts day and night, and I have had to start medication for anxiety and depression.

There's also the huge worry that I might find myself completely alone in the future. The thought of that is unbearable. Whilst I would never end my life, if I opt to have never existed I would.

My only hope is that I might be able to build myself a community of friends. I have a lot of hobbies and interests, and although I am a quiet kind if person, I make friends quite easily and am relatively popular at work etc. For example, have a lot of people who reach out to me each week for a chat / to see how I am etc and I reciprocate. I try to tell myself that this demonstrates that I am likeable.

I also hope that when I am older I will be able to move myself (and hopefully my partner too) to a continuous care community. You start with independent living and gradually move through levels of care as required. I have found a lovely place fairly near me. It's like a country hotel to be honest! The grounds are gorgeous and I think I would enjoy a nice peaceful time there doing things like painting and drawing, with companionship and care on hand as I need it. It's expensive, but I should be lucky enough to be able to afford it. I work hard and do my best to save money towards it.

I can't help that I have ended up in this situation and am facing a potentially lonely future, but all I can do is my best to find strategies to mitigate the problems I might face. I think some people on this thread should try to be a little more compassionate. If you have had the good fortune to have a family and be surrounded by lots of people who will happily 'look after you' in old age then please consider yourself very fortunate. But please try not to scare others who, for no fault of their own, haven't shared your good luck. Life is such a lottery. All any of us can do is enjoy the time we have, plan and prepare as best we can, and try to do some good with our time.

I think this will definitely be the case. As an only child with very little family, I feel like I am a bit of a 'pioneer' in living this way (appreciating that I am of course not the only person of my generation in this situation - it's just that most people of my age do seem to have brothers and sisters, more cousins, nieces and nephews etc).

I absolutely understand why people are having smaller families (cost of living etc) but I have found that in adulthood, my own very small family has left me feeling quite vulnerable. I'd love to have a brother / sister / niece / nephew etc.

There's nothing I can do to change my situation though. Writing this has actually got me thinking that maybe I could find some 'purpose' in life in trying to bring people together / develop communities of support / help combat loneliness. I saw a lovely initiative recently whereby a group of women in their 20s and 30s had started their own 'girls club'. It was aimed especially at those who have no partner. They get together and do all sorts of activities. It looks well attended. I think creating something like that would be a lovely, worthwhile thing to do.

She wasn’t a little old lady. She was a woman in her sixties, quite jolly. And she just seemed to think it was perfectly ok that they didn’t visit to help her out. I don’t think she minded. The impression I got is that she was happy with them living their own lives, which is fair enough. I was the one who was shocked. Of course I didn’t say anything. None of my business.

Maybe she has been on crutches for many years and used to managing without any help.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but please do not presume that it applies to all only children. I dealt with my parents aging, my mother having to go into care, the eventual death of both of them, completely by myself and found it far easier and less stressful than I anticipated. Yes, there were difficult times, but people with siblings faced the same difficulties, and as three of my friends were the only children still living in the same town/country as their parents their experiences weren't much different to mine. My parents were divorced btw, so it wasn't as though I had help from them either.

I now live alone, my husband and I have been separated for around 20 years and I have no children. I have a few cousins, only three living in the same town, and while we like each other we aren't close. I'm very happy and content, and don't feel lonely. Life is what you make of it, and I don't see ending up alone being the awful experience you seem to think it is.

My exDH has one brother. Other than when a parent died, where they stuck to the practicalities, they haven't had any contact for several decades.

@BruFord

Thank you for hearing me in what I was trying to get across.

For me I had caring responsibility for 3 of my grandparents, my mother, and 4 aunts/uncles without children… I am an only child and though I have a small no. cousins they were all either in a different country or 20+ miles away and the two generations above us were greater in number due to only 3/9 siblings on my mum’s side deciding to have children.

I really thought the CF were all phenomenally inspirational - brilliant careers, lovely lifestyle, travelled the world etc etc…. Until my entire 30s were obliterated by caring for them as all went down like dominos at the same time as my Mum, grandmother and having very young children it was just horrific - both in terms of the impact on me and my nuclear family and in them feeling so tremendously lonely, regretful and powerless (due to their health issues).

The thing is as much as they were fond Aunts and Uncles, it was all at distance.. they appeared at birthdays, Christmas, special lunches; they weren’t there for the day to day like grandparents. So to have us have to come in and coordinate care for them, becoming embroiled in their personal affairs, and at times having to help them with personal care especially when they were really ill or fell…. They were deeply uncomfortable because we weren’t close family and all their close friends were either dead or in a similar state.

Somebody said about not being lonely and going off travelling…. All of them stopped travelling between 65-75 depending on their issues and ability to cope… the last 20 years into their 80s/90s were a bit of a slog and they really struggled to adapt to a life were they were more confined in terms of what they were able to do. Much more so that my grandparents who obviously with the responsibility of children and grandchildren had not had complete personal freedom from their 20s.

To be fair, my relatives did have suitable accomodation, cleaner, gardener, home hairdresser etc but they all nominated my parent and myself as POA etc as no one else close to them. And I don’t think they realised the possibility that my mother and sibling would die before them leaving it on me.

It’s very sad when I look at photos of them now visiting the Taj Mahal and doing fabulous things for themselves in their 30s-50s I just burst into tears because in simplistic terms their decision to prioritise this for themselves over family life, meant very negative consequences for me during my 30s. A entire decade. You are right @BruFord it wasn’t fair at all.

Anyway, I’m glad if my unburdening some of this from myself at least gives people a heads up about what can go wrong whenever things aren’t fully thought out, beyond basic practicalities.

@Strawberriesandpears

I feel you on the only child vibe. All my extended family are gone now. Bar one parent and distant cousins who I haven’t really had a proper relationship with for 20 years or so.

DH has a lot of family, they and our fabulous friends and their kids have formed the extended family and there’s a lot to be said around enjoyment in the nuclear family. Regards childcare there is a tonne and afterschools - many use this even if they have grandparents available.

I’m so sorry that your parents are declining and you’re finding this hard. Being an only child you form an incredibly close bond. I know it’s extremely traumatic to see them suffer and the stress and anxiety it causes.

I honestly am wishing you every strength and resilience for your parents and you. I hope you are able to prioritise some time for self care as it’s so important.

For my own part, I will do everything in my power to avoid my DC taking on any personal care role and I am frankly massively relieved that the only people they will ever have any responsibility to at all will be me and DH at most.

Please don’t worry so much and dwell on things that are potentially half a lifetime away. It’s astounding that you are younger than me but already saying you will never have a family and are saving for a retirement village….

Having kids is rewarding, but very draining in terms of physical, emotional and financial resources. There are so many wonderful things you could be embracing in life right now - albeit the situation with your parents is no doubt distressing and perhaps restrictive?

You have so much time to live and enjoy your life and so many meaningful connections to make along the way.

Everything does have a way of working out, just be realistic in planning.

I do agree that it isn't fair to land your issues on extended family. Personally I won't do that anyway as I have no extended family. I will be entirely alone. I find the prospect terrifying. But then I also find the prospect of bringing a child into the world just to serve my needs equally as horrifying, as well as selfish. So I can't really win. Sometimes I do wish I hadn't been born so that I don't have all these things to worry about and so that I don't have to inconvenience anyone at the end of my life.

Thank you for your latest reply @Robinni