To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

It was recommended to me on another board, and I was assured you don’t have to be a mum to post here.

@SomersetTart

Found your post the most interesting… mainly because it does outline people can have difficulty understanding others point of view.

…. Firstly, why is it astonishing that Mumsnet is predominantly aimed at Mums?!

If there was Dadsnet it would be aimed at Dads.
Teachernet aimed at teachers
I mean I don’t need to go on do I?!

I went and looked at the travel section there and it is dominated by mumsnet recommends for families posts, then people talking about centreparcs, trunkis, travelling for toddlers. Pets, often things like what pet to get for a 6 year old, or best family dog etc and so it goes on.

When Boris Johnston was interviewed questions from mumsnet were posed to him as being from mums of the nation…

The site is predominantly geared towards mothers. But that doesn’t mean to say others aren’t welcome. But it isn’t a neutral for all space like other boards, Reddit for example. The key is in the name.

Be aware you’re having a narrow view yourself…. Based on your own experience. That is all anyone can offer.

As for OP’s original point, I think it’s just curiosity as to how the other half live, there are +/- to everything.

For instance, I have many child free friends, I went on a weekend away, CF arrived immaculate, early, well rested. I and another mother arrived late, somewhat shattered and thrown together with whatever clothes available (after ensuring kids were all immaculate and well rested..)

But then when a few things went wrong, like a restaurant serving late/wrong thing, spa not being as desired all that me and the other Mum were more chill about it and adapted easier to sort things because we were more used to (worn down by?!) various shades of chaos daily - not only in work, but at home 24/7.

(Note - what I noted with my friends not what all CF may be like.)

Some of my friends in 40s/50s are still living like I did in 20s, I wonder if all the stuff they accumulate and repeated experiences ever gets boring, they in turn will wonder about me missing out on all that and if the drudgery of kids ever gets boring. Like it or not people like OP will wonder about what DINKs experience in old age might be like because it may be far removed from her own.

People are curious.

@KimberleyClark

You’re a stronger woman than me.

I honestly still remember acutely how traumatised I was. Really it was multiple surgeries more than the fertility and being completely dislocated from peers due to it.

We managed to have DC in the end. Which has been challenging in its own way.

I don’t think I would have ever got over it tbh. I’m so glad you’ve been able to build such an enriched and fulfilling life after that experience.

@KimberleyClark

What I mean is I thought it was a phenomenal idea and needed too!!

Somewhere for CF women to share their lives together to find out about things that interest them… empowering…

But it was predominantly fixated upon being angry at and spiteful towards Mums. And a huge amount of it focused on terrible fertility experiences - news flash, not all CF wanted to have children!! And those who did go through that probably don’t want to have to read more about it especially when trying to find an uplifting and safe space. If I had come across that site after my fertility journey ending negativity it would have been damaging mentally…
Then the focus on globe trotting… yes this is something CF may do, but not all and certainly not 365 a year.

In short it was filled with pain, anger and escapism and I didn’t feel it was reflective of CF women’s lives or gave them a fun, uplifting place to just be them.

Only plus was the pretty website design… like picking up a cupcake and biting into it to find it’s a prune.

@Robinni I know you're speaking just of your experiences of your child free friends, and maybe they do fit the cliche, but it is a bit frustrating to read nevertheless. I find it surprising that anyone in their 40s/50s is living exactly as they did in their twenties, for one thing. And getting bent out of shape about small things going wrong, or liking to be very groomed, are just personality things.

I've always been prepared to support and come out to bat for mothers in society, as part of my feminism, and in return I'd prefer not to be othered by some mothers.

@SomeCatFromJapan

Was just describing what I know, not focused on thinking about cliche, sorry if it is frustrating for you, I’m very aware they won’t represent all. Just like the overwhelmed, somewhat bedraggled and last min me that I am sometimes is not representative of all mothers, but a fair few can relate.

Regards still doing the same as in twenties I am talking circa 28/29 before I got married, not Uni days! My friends are still going out to wine bars, high class meals, fancy holidays, invested in the the same sports, hobbies, same focus on career and they’re more involved with their families of origin too by contrast to me. We still get on great, I just have to dip in and out of shared activities as I don’t have same time, money and energy to engage as much.

Not othering at all. We’re all women together, we just all have different life paths, careers. We should all be supporting each other.

I've tried to reply to your post Robinni but I can't add anything that's not already been said on this long thread. The OPs responses to the many posts on this thread do not reflect a curious nature but an entrenched one and - if she was genuinely curious a forum she believed to be entirely populated by mums was a funny place to go searching for wider views from the child free. But then.....this has also been said ad infinitum.

liking to be very groomed, are just personality things….

I can assure you I like being groomed!! LOVE IT in fact.

My friend’s day off prior to weekend away… wake up around 8, get breakfast and read, wash and dress, do a bit of prep for work next week, throw stuff in bag, cool bag with food already packed and prepared, grabs lunch on the way. Had time the evening before to get legs etc waxed, arrives refreshed and 45 minutes early.

My day, wake around 6am to get myself washed and dressed before kids get up, throw in a wash, wake kids at 7am, get them through morning routine, school run 8.15-9.15, hang wash, put on another wash, realise the kitchen is a mess and tackle it, I can’t find the outfit I thought I had so get something else and stick on, continue with washing and trying to change a few beds, do some ironing and finish packing case, collect DC from school, grandparent late to mind them so delayed leaving. Have a panicked dash around tesco on way as haven’t got food. Realise I forgot to have lunch. Arrive 1 1/2hrs late. Ladies without kids prepare food as me and other mum are still recovering from the great escape and in my case, they’ve been kind enough to give me a half hour in the bathroom to shave my legs and deal with my grotesque looking eyebrows so we can all go to the spa/pool the following day. (Me and other mum sorted dinner the following night)

I have amazing friends reading that and I am beyond lucky to have them in my life. But yeah… the grooming thing it’s just not possible to put the same time and effort in, as I would before, without more family support, cleaner, nanny… then it’s possible!!

@SomersetTart

Maybe you have MN premium and can read all her posts in one go… I can’t.

So you think her post was one to confirm her own bias and/or to get people’s backs up?

You don't need premium, you just like 'see all' at the bottom of the OP. I don't want to speak for SomersetTart, but I share their view that OP came here hoping to feel a bit smug/superior with some other parents, and has been increasingly snippy as it hasn't gone their way.

I'm not sure what the relevance of your posts about your friends and different grooming routines are?

@Robinni I don't have MN Premium but have followed this thread from the outset. @Pinkdaffodils900 put my thoughts perfectly into words and as she has said this view has already been expressed many times on this thread by many posters.

@Pinkdaffodils900

Sorry I got a bit offended at the idea that grooming is a personality thing….

If you are CF (and do not have other dependents) your day off is actually your day off.

My day off is not just for me, it is for all of us, I didn’t have the same time the night before to do anything for myself because I was doing homework, ferrying to activities, bath and bed time for kids…. And on the day, if I don’t keep up with washing (for 5 people) and other jobs, I’ll come back to even more of a mess at the end of 2 1/2 days away.

It’s just totally different in terms of time and availability to attend to grooming. My friends are at spa twice a month, I am twice a year!!

@Robinni your post reads like you think mothers are the only people who need to do washing, or food shopping, or change beds. It's really boring.

ETA - oh FFS, and I never go to a spa. What's your point?!

Yes but you brought up the grooming in the first place and were the one making arguments about mothers and non-mothers being different, to which another poster pointed out that non-parents aren't 'other', we all have different lifestyles that go beyond whether or not we have children.

What I mean about grooming being a personality thing is it's not something I'm remotely interested in. Granted if I were, I'd have more time to do so, but I'm not. I'm sure you look much more put together than me.

@innerdesign

My point is grooming is not a personality thing in the context of my example.

I was making a comparison between myself and my friends, not you.

Caring for four other people as well as yourself is a bit of an undertaking!

No one has disagreed with that? I'm genuinely confused about what argument you think you're having here?

@Pinkdaffodils900

My point was there are positives and negatives to being a mum/CF and I gave a few examples from my own life. (Not representative for everyone)

Ultimately, everyone’s life is equally as valid.

My point is grooming is not a personality thing in the context of my example.

So you mean you and your friends are all dressy types but you have less time than the ones with no children? I mean, that's understandable but it's a choice really. Obviously you're going to have less free time if you have kids.

But you still think the positives of being CF are being able to wax your legs and pluck your eyebrows more often, and the benefits of being a mum are more worthy and fulfilling. It's obvious from your posts.

I don't see the point in either waxing legs or plucking eyebrows, all sounds bloody painful.

But I do appreciate being able to do an hour in the gym before work, go out with friends on impulse and foster rescue cats who need somewhere quiet & peaceful, start off hiding for two days and end up taking up half the bed.

@innerdesign

I feel like you are purposefully trying to trip me up and demonise me as anti CF which I am not.

I said there were positives and negatives.

A big positive for me, if I were still CF, would be having more time to take care of myself, attend to my needs and what makes me feel good.

In a long winded fashion I showed how I didn’t have the same time to prep for a girls weekend away where we were all swimming and at a spa. And arrived late, frazzled and tired. My CF friends were well rested, prepped and able to engage immediately with the break, whereas I took until the next day.

I do see self care as a big positive for this example and in general. It could be lovely things such as @EmpressaurusOfTheScathingTinsel describes too.

Three years ago or so I used to feel much the way you're describing, really in my head and worried about the future if I didn't have children. I would look online for answers and end up feeling worse. I started learning to meditate and in one particular meditation he said something that really resonated:

"Sometimes, in not knowing ourselves fully, we rely on the opinions of others, who may not even know themselves."

I think this is a key thing to bear in mind when you're in that kind of headspace. Each of us is unique and what works for one person may not work for another. People's views online are becoming more extreme and polarised than ever and random people who don't even know you aren't always the healthiest sources of validation. Plus in all likelihood most people will just recommend doing what makes them feel content, which won't necessarily be right for you.

I also think the future is rarely ever as scary (once you're actually there!) as what our brains imagine it could be. You miss out on good things that might come up for you in the present moment when you get stuck in that place, and it's noticing good things in the present moment, no matter how small, which can increase self worth and be the building blocks to creating a healthy future. If you focus on creating good mental health in the present day you are going to be so much better placed to deal with any problems that may or may not arise when you're old.

And yes, it sounds like people at work really appreciate you and like your company. People wouldn't make the effort if they didn't see things in you that they like.🙂

As to which is more fulfilling, life is what you make of it.

For me being a mum was the biggest thing I wanted out of life and in that I do feel fulfilled, but it’s got its challenges too.

Regards others I know, all wanted kids but life had other plans, one is a step mum, others still planning on ivf, most highly involved with their families of origin still. All have brilliant careers and interests.

Just to carry on from what @Salmonyumyum said about meditation - agree, this helped me when caring for all the relatives.

I picked up a lovely little book the other day called ‘How to be present’ by Sophie Golding… it’s very cute, digestible and practical.