to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

If the group isn't getting enough people it will need to fold.

If the other mums aren't comfortable they won't come back.

So yes, it will fold.

Probably the easiest outcome in the circumstances

It might be the easiest outcome, but it is not the best outcome. I would ask the male to leave the group.

The group will collapse anyway, I just wouldn’t want my toddler near anyone with a fetish. She probably should report to SS but lets be honest they probably won’t see it as a problem. She could try re-opening later but he’ll turn up again, she could specify females only but she’ll probably bet hounded for it.

I’m really sorry this has happened, I’m sure a lot of women really appreciated her group, having a toddler can be lonely and hard and many of us really needed the social contact groups provide.

It would be a shame for this to fold.

I would recommend your friend speaks to CAB and does also speak to Social Services.

The fake pregnancy bump is really concerning behaviour and I would say there’s a risk/likelihood of this man having either mental health issues or even a fetish.

In this situation, I would speak to this male that the other parents have expressed their comcern specifically about the fake bump and are therefore too uncomfortable to return. Ask him to leave the group as his behaviour is not appropriate. Explain that if he refuses to leave, the group will be shut down anyway.

If group stops running without him being called out on his behaviour, it will make him more likely just to find another group.

I think you should ask him to leave, I try to be open minded but this is quite creepy. Say that other people have complained and left. Alternatively, set up another group and say only mothers are allowed with their children or something.

Your friend can tell him not to come. It would be unlawful discrimination to exclude him for how he dresses but not to ban him for his creepy behaviour.

It might be too late now but what does she have to lose?

Alternatively, set up another group and say only mothers are allowed with their children or something.

That might well be unlawful discrimination.

If you run a group you need to be strong enough to tell people when their behaviour isn't OK and to protect your customers.

He sounds perverted/deranged. No place for him around children!

Close it down and open a 'post partum support group'. That way the group can be for mothers only. The Equality Act allows for sex discrimination for women's safety and dignity.

Which is a shame for any stay at home or single dads who might want to bring their toddler.

When we aged out of our mothers group, we just got each others phone numbers and arranged to meet in a cafe, park or whatever. It wasn’t a formal group, just a group of friends meeting up. Could you suggest that she just texts the actual mums and doesn’t add the rando and they continue like that. There’s no discrimination because it’s just a group of mums.

If a group is "by invitation only" rather than open to all comers then you can invite who you like and discrimination doesn't apply.

Close down the invaded group. Set up a new invitation-only group (different day, different venue) and invite all the old members. Create a joining procedure with garekeeping to ensure only bona fife mums with toddlers can join.

I'm not a lawyer but could it be argued that this person using a fake baby bump is discriminating against the women in the group by ridiculing and demeaning the state of pregnancy?

I agree that she should initiate that the other Mums meet casually in this case.
Close the official group and rename the next one.

Once it's up and running the initial Mums (older casual group of Mums) could be invited to any associated information talks etc.

He's a man. Everyone knows he's a man.

At least mn is a safe place to state reality.

Men can legally be excluded from certain women only spaces under the Equality Act if it serves a legitimate aim.

A group for mothers, who have all recently given birth should qualify for this exemption.

She might just be better renaming it a mothers or post partum group (as above).

The fetish/fake bump thing I'd want to report but no one will do anything without more evidence of harm to the child.

Even if legally in the right, your friend may want the hassle of a potential discrimination claim. I would speak to SS about the worrying behavior around the DGD. The instincts of a number of mums may well be correct. Indeed it is possible that this person is already known to SS.

If SS are sensible your friend should be able to have a constructive conversation with them. The group will be a valuable resource to new mothers. But there is no guarantee they will be.

If she does want to continue I would report on the feminism, sex and gender board where there will be some knowledgeable people able to advise on how best to proceed.

I think this could be argued.

Section of Equality Act here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26/enacted?view=plain

Something like this, just be clever about it. Although it's really unfair, the trans thing isn't as bad as the fake bump which takes it into creepy territory

I'm sorry but I'd ask this man to leave

So would I. Sometimes the grown ups in the room need to say enough is enough.

I'd report to SS, at the very least this person has mental health issues surrounding the fake bump.

No wonder you can't sleep. No neither will I! Madness

I agree. He shouldn’t be allowed. It’s a shame if these groups close.

Nope that is not the solution.

If we want men to take a full and active role in caring for their children, things like toddler groups should be accessible for Dads as well. It is the only way that we are ever going to get any traction true equality for women.

My DH is the primary carer of our children and regularly takes our daughter to the local parent and toddler group where they are both welcomed.

OP, I can understand where your friend is coming from. The person coming to the group is not technically doing anything wrong, and to specifically exclude them will be discriminatory.

SS are already over run dealing with caseloads at the very highest thresholds imaginable, with very little resources. By all means make a referral, but it will likely be an open and then shut operation.

I've just mentioned this to my DH and thinks it's super creepy and would be really unhappy for me to take our DS to this group. It's really frustrating because the reality is that this person is a man but the way the world the world is, confronting this man could be seen as discrimatory.

Why do we need your DH’s opinion?

But does your DH wear a fake bump and claim to be a woman?

That is the issue. Other people (mums, even possibly the odd dad) will perceive this as potentially fetatistic behavior, which they won't want to be party to.

It’s not discriminatory to confront someone because they are falsely claiming to be pregnant.