To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

@LovelyTheresa Can I ask you a really simple question?

On the whole, do you think men generally treat women well?

Well, this is just silly. Do you think Greek men are some other species with nothing in common with other men?

I’d be interested to hear what you thought about my post from a few days ago about all the different cultures which have variously and to different degrees oppressed women in ways that even you couldn’t deny. I’ll see if I can find it.

Here you go, @LovelyTheresa

Do you think you can join the dots here and see that the ‘awful’ behaviour you experienced from Greek men is part of a continuum? Men across time and space have oppressed women according to the degree the majority in their culture will allow. Misogyny doesn’t spring up spontaneously in each locality; it’s endemic.

@IncompleteSenten

Hit the nail on the head totally

Misandry doesn't have the potential or potency to create 🤔 so much incideous harmful toxicity in so may ways as misogynistic behaviour's and attitudes,

It's still statically uncommon for women to commit kill murder etc

When a women commits murder it can be a reaction to violence or sexual abuse

Obviously there will allways be exceptions to the rule as expected in life...

I'm not interested in it, so don't bother.

Too late! I already did! And clearly you’ve already read it and found yourself unable to make a meaningful response.

It’s also statistically unlikely for men to kill / murder. In a Swedish study I posted earlier in this thread, 1% of the population was responsible for violent crime and murder.

Oh wow! That is good news.

Someone pass the champagne.

Never mind all the low-level shit women get from men every single day.

I’ve had to bollock a class full of Y11 boys because of their nasty, smirking contempt for a piece of literature in which a man murders a woman. Little sniggers about him choking her. Insinuating comments about how she got herself into this situation. Foul, foul views that are normalised and then protected by the clowns on here.

It never starts with murder.

It starts with contempt , dismissiveness towards and dehumanisation of women and girls. With comments,and jokes and "banter". With porn and page 3 girls . With rape myths and excuses. With unwanted attention, be it verbal or physical. A hand here, a hand there. With entitlement. With anger at rejection. With pressure and shaming. With sexual harassment. With sexual abuse. With domestic violence. With she asked for it and what did she expect. With erasure of boundaries and safe spaces. With unrealistic, often contradictory expectations. With promoting and portraying unsafe sex practices as fun and no big deal.

It ends with murder.

Quite depressing to check back in on this thread and see that like every other bloody thread about the imbalance of power, inequality and disparity in criminal activity between men and women, this thread has also descended into the 'namalt and well men don't do too much crime and women are just as bad' nonsense. When the fuck will we be liberated from this shit??!!

Summed it up perfectly for me.

To be fair - it seems like it’s only been the same two posters who are arguing that men’s treatment of women is all good and that not all men are like that so what’s the big deal?

There are probably 2 people on here that believe the earth is flat so 🤷🏽‍♀️

I don't think its depressing that people say NAMALT. Its kind of obvious that they will. I think it's more depressing that people only post

1. examples of men being shit
2. NAMALT or anti NAMALT point scoring
3. posts about the shit state of the thread

Almost nobody posts anything constructive.

That's depressing

So what in your humble opinion would be a constructive contribution to this discussion?

@bragpuss And is your post then not a comment on ‘the shit state of the thread?’

we need to change what the social rules are. we need to use every tool and trick that psychologists, sociologists and marketing has learned to change the way people think and behave in social settings. There are so many areas to address. Making catcalling and hitting on people taboo. More generally, the rules around the way people interact with people they don't know. Having respect for people. Treating everyone as equals.

Fair enough…

I’m a senior leader in a primary school and we have visitors from an organisation to prevent violence against women and girls who do workshops with our Year 6 children. Separately with the boys and girls. It’s really valuable and often shocking to hear what some young people think about consent, acceptable behaviours etc.

But it’s not enough. I definitely think it should be prioritised more in the curriculum.

I agree that respect for women isn't some sort of standard baked into society. It is completely dependent on what consequences there are socially for acting in a way that is demeaning or cruel or contemptuous.

I've had this this week: i do not think it is whether it is because I an attractive or not. I really think it is because the perception is that I cannot do very much about it or will put up with it. I am no longer surprised by sexism, but how I react to it has changed. Really it is a man bullying or dismissing you. Anyway, I smiled at this man and then returned his contempt later in a way that did him more damage. He already thought I was a bitch so I actually gave him a reason. He probably has many interactions with women that are equally bad; ultimately I think men do not like competition from women or even the perception they are less. They will bully you if their ego demands it.

@bragpuss, treating everyone as equals sounds great - and is a superb objective - but how does one get there from a position of inequality? There are plenty of situations where rich people and poor people treat one another as equals, but they all know they are not. Good manners can't fix everything, sadly!

Powerful groups don't readily give away their advantage. There need to be credible threats & consequences. I would genuinely like to see legal enforcement, despite the many pitfalls. There should be way more public messaging like the 'rape culture' ads and London Transport Police's sexual harassment posters. We should be saturated with that stuff, so everybody knows and fuckwit men start feeling shunned. And women should be refusing to have relationships with guys who disrespect them, their female relatives or colleagues, or women in general.

One of my billionaire fantasies (not that I stand a chance of being one) is to sink hundreds of millions in a massive campaign on women's rights ⛅

This is the era of social media and though it is part of the problem, it gives us the ability to create movements and campaigns without costing millions

There isn't one thing that will fix everything. There are many things that all need to happen. Some harder than others. Most are interrelated and when we make progress in some areas, it should pave the way in others. I think attacking the roots seems most obvious.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Misgonstic apologist
Please don't insult my intelligence,

by being deliberately provactive,

You are part of the problem gaslighting and trivialising the existence of the very idea of disturbing toxic male attitudes behaviours and crimes,

Statically in Sweden it maybe like that in regards of extremely low statics rates in regards of males commiting murders on women crime,

Hovever it definately isnt like that elsewhere Uk and western world and other societies globally and in the meantime just your post, exemplifies and shows clearly how normalised misgonstic attitudes and behaviours is normalised i to such an extant in our society,

Why is that 🤔 then?

I tell you why cause it happens so often, every day in our society and other western societies and globally around the world, just like @PaperDoIIs excellent post,

And also cause societies have pandered so much to such an extant to toxic males man child egos and whims that by default,
that they have created a monster entiled egotism,
that's so out of kilter balance in our society
and so pervasive that's it's seems overwhelming task project at times,
on how to make serious inroads on how to effectively make a real difference to alter the disturbing statics of crimes related to this topic on Misgongy,
Hell in western society we even vote in men in positions of the highest office power even knowing full well ,Trump liked being sexually inappropriate to women,
Just like Clinton former president ,
There is a American boxer who even acctracted more fans and extra money after he beat up his wife,

Statically rape is a crime that has some of thr lowest levels of being brought to justice in UK..

Societies around the Globe need to wake up and realise how pervasive and how much filters on so many levels this kind of topic effects societies,
and treat these kind of crimes like its emergency proririty to tackle

Rather than just doing virtue signalling campaigns after a horrific crime has been commited by a policeman in met force,

I know no societies can create utopia perfection
However it's possible to improve societies in realistic way..

Agree there is no magic bullet, but women put up with too much.

It's time we all started saying Enough is Enough and not caring that the consequence will be men saying we're bitches, we've gone too far, we're nags, we're moaning about a non issue, we're not sexy when we complain etcetera, et-bloody-cetera.

Oh course violence against women is a priority issue. But I think women put up with too much in the home in terms of bad behaviour which falls short of the criminal - the laziness, selfishness, entitlement and unreasonable expectations of men. That's where change has to start.

We need a total shift to stop accepting (and in some cases not even noticing) this shitty behaviour. We need to go against our people pleasing instincts and start saying No, you cannot behave like that. We need everyone to start saying Enough is Enough, women are not men's carers, their property, their playthings, their servants, their emotional punchbags, their cleaners, their ego-boosters.

The real problem is that too many women are gatekeeping the status quo. So men just sit back in the knowledge that we will scupper our own emancipation every time with namalt, let's be kind, I like pretty, I love pleasing my man, etc et bloody cetra.

Ahhhh....it's women's job to fix it...of course it is. If been out fault all along. We are the real problem.
bangs head against wall repeatedly.

I can see what @bragpuss means that this is starting to become a bit of a circular discussion.
We have two posters who insist on adding the same comments. I think to summarise:

poster one:
-there is no problem with men because the men in her life are all lovely, except perhaps the ones she met in Greece 😜
-men treat attractive women better (no one has disputed this but I think lots of PPs have highlighted that this is a faux sort of nice for obvious reasons)
-discussing these serious issues (DV, rape, murder included) and validating others’ experiences is just ‘victim mentality’ or ‘pissing in someone’s well’.

Poster two:

• the majority of men don’t commit violent crime (source- Swedish study)

-think the same poster was fixated on correcting someone else’s overestimate of womens violent crime outnumbering men’s’ by thousands to one. When really it’s more like 10 or 11 to one. (Hurray for us!)