To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

I think a lot of men preferred it when they could speak to/treat women as they choose.

They grow up with the sense of entitlement being a boy has and do not feel they should have to contribute 50/50 to a home.

A lot of women are naturally pleasers (due to how girls are raised) so will fall in to the trap of trying to be everything so their husband can be what he chooses.

I'm hoping there's a shift with the younger generations but time will tell.

I think we need to somehow build or rebuild a set of social rules to try and eliminate the poor behaviours and change mindsets.

Agree. Oh and being attractive may mean superficial smarminess from some men yes but that is counter balanced by the leering / disgusting sexual comments from randoms/ weird vibes when dealing with men that I really do not miss.

Certainly not my behaviour or expectations Theresa (not lovely). Men I did not know would say disgusting things to me while I was riding my bike / eating a sandwich in a park - totally minding my own business.

One of my dds is even more stand out than I was (not being boastful just honest) and from 13 onwards has experienced street harassment. To be fair it has improved since I was a teen. But she was sexually verbally assaulted on a bus at 14. Another woman stepped in and the driver kicked him off.

Women obviously. As in ‘she made me do it’.

Yes. I struggle to understand why men being nicer to more attractive women can possibly be a good thing.

I must be one of the few women that welcomes aging - really enjoy not dealing with that.

Ridiculous being with dd2 men with tongues literally hanging out. One 20 something asked her out in a shop with me standing right there. She’s 14.

The poster who said this is struggling with two opposing thoughts. On one hand, they have realised that the overwhelming number of attractive women will have experienced some form of nuisance behaviour, likely sexual harassment and probably many times over since their teens (not nice).
They will also have doubtless observed women considered less attractive being treated less favourably than themselves. (Also not nice.)
On the other hand, for some reason, despite this being an anonymous forum where posters can say what they like and could in reality be anyone from Aphrodite herself to Basement Bernard, and we'd be none the wiser, they want us to think of them as pretty.
It's extremely difficult to present as both an attractive woman and a woman who has never experienced nuisance behaviour from (not nice) men in large numbers. It's amusing to see the poster trying to square the circle.

I haven't yet read the full thread but I'm reminded of this each time I join a long queue for the Ladies whilst the men skip merrily in and out. I always think it is no wonder men see us as second class.

In the vast majority of places I note that the men's toilet is placed first. At an airport last summer I was surprised to see the women's toilet was placed first on the corridor. Just in the brief time I was there I saw several men approach the door and fall back in surprise on realising it was not the men's toilet. This placing of men before women is replicated throughout society in ways that men don't even see but that reinforces all the while that women are lesser beings.

This is very non scientific but I liked the honesty of Dustin Hoffman is Tootsie. Hoffman insisted that he be made into a beautiful woman; but had to be told no, this is as good as it gets, we can't make you beautiful. He was shucked. His ego told him he had to be beautiful.

Hoffman said he realised at that point (and btw he had actually been functioning in society for some time) that he realised he would not, as a man, spent any time speaking to his own character because she was not attractive. That she was a non person. He admitted that he would not have thought a woman he did not find attractive was worth talking to or any interest. And he had been doing that for years.

Men do treat women they perceive as attractive differently. It is a distinct test of character in a man who will talk to a woman because she is interesting in her own right. Not because of her looks.

The Tootsie test is a good test of someone's character. If they put their good looks first, then they are superficial. Men and women.

There's the fact that most men dont/won't read books by women.
Also, when computing was in it's infancy programming was looked at a women's work and low paid. When it was decided that it was important it was taken over by men and the pay rocketed. Now all the tech bros are men.
It's so ingrained. I've just picked up Invisible Women by Christine Criado Perez and it's such a sobering read.

Imagine a world where your phone is too big for your hand, where your doctor prescribes a drug that is wrong for your body, where in a car accident you are 47% more likely to be seriously injured, where every week the countless hours of work you do are not recognised or valued. If any of this sounds familiar, chances are that you're a woman. Invisible Women shows us how, in a world largely built for and by men, we are systematically ignoring half the population. It exposes the gender data gap - a gap in our knowledge that is at the root of perpetual, systemic discrimination against women, and that has created a pervasive but invisible bias with a profound effect on women's lives.

Hi I'm new

I nodded confidently when I saw the title of this thread. Obviously not all men but yes I think a much bigger chunk of men do hate women compared with 15/20 years ago. In fact I'd put money on it.

I just don't spend a lot of time worrying about men being a bit of a nuisance. From my point of view, the benefits of being pretty outweigh the negatives (which are minimal) The actress Monica Bellucci famously said the same thing, she was asked if she found her beauty a blessing or a curse and she just laughed and said that it was of course a blessing. I don't see why people are so sure I'm trying to 'square a circle'. Also, I'm amused by the people who laugh at me for saying I'm pretty but are very determined to make sure everyone knows that they are pretty as well, how ever much they hate the male attention they get. Funny how nobody on here has said that they have experienced being unattractive from the sharp end.

I wish it wasn’t true too but sadly having reached the age of nearly 50 the evidence is simply just too overwhelming to ignore. Watch the Sarah Everard documentary for a depressing snapshot. I really don’t see how anyone sentient unless they had an agenda could argue otherwise really.

Like I said, telling people on an anonymous forum you're pretty is entirely pointless given you could be pretty, you could be plain, you could be a man for all anyone will ever know. Everyone on here is whatever they say they are. For the time they're on here at least.
What matters is not what you say you look like, but the contents of your posts, and whether you're an attractive woman, a plain woman or a man, you're still trying to argue two opposing points at once. That men are nice, and that men are nice to pretty women, which actually isnt very nice. That's the circle you're trying to square.

Hello @SpringtimeBunny and welcome to MN where debate can be heated but also where you’ll find amazing support (most of the time) and knowledgable, funny and resourceful women (and quite a few men).

Exactly. No one on here knows what you look like. Your points about men’s attitudes to attractive women and plain women would surely be exactly the same (ie nonsense) whichever category you happen to fall into 🤷‍♀️

That particular poster sounds like someone who sees "their" people as an extension of them ,a reflection on them and under their control.Having bad men in their life , or bad experiences would reflect badly on them. That's why she's taking this thread so personally, just the implied possibility of knowing a not "lovely" man. She feels under attack, because she(or her life) can't possibly less than perfect.

That's why it's ok for other men to be awful (far ,far away) , they're not HER men, they will never be HER men.

You will also find pile ons if you don't subrscibe to silly groupthink and victim mentality. If you don't enjoy playing the victim, it isn't the site for you IMO.

@LovelyTheresa no comment on why you're allowed to say greek men are awful yet?

NAGMALT

They aren't all awful, but I was there the year of the Olympics (ageing myself a bit there!) and there was a certain atmosphere.

@LovelyTheresa you didn't make that distinction though. You just said MEN there are awful.

I meant that men there were a bit on the rough side, yes. I noticed it precisely because it was outside my experience. I know you think it is some gotcha but it really, really isn't.

@LovelyTheresa all greek men?

I mean, I wasn't taking names but I guess mostly.