To love but not like my adult son.

[redcloudsunshine]

I am quite prepared to be bashed and told what an awful monster I am but I can't help the way I feel.
I have an adult son living at home, he's 24 and I just don't like him.
His opinion on woman is disgusting and disrespectful, he's rude to dh and I and has the attitude of a stroppy teen.
He won't do anything asked of him, and if spoken to about anything gives back chat.
He doesn't clean up after himself, has ruined our home by making stains on carpets and scuffs on paintwork etc that he shouts wasn't on purpose if anyone dares to say anything.
He has a very loud annoying laugh that he uses anytime anyone has any misfortune and thoroughly enjoys mocking and putting everyone down.
I think he learnt most of his ways from his dad who had him every weekend growing up, he too hates woman.
I think it's too late to try and change him now, he's set in his way and as far as he's concerned he's right about woman and nothing will change his mind.
He reads books on power and control under the guise of it being assertive management which he claims will benefit him when he gets to be a manager.
We also have two daughters with current dh who live at home although they're younger teens and they are so different, they are polite and friendly and sit with us and talk to us like human beings, we have a brilliant relationship and lots of fun together, they act like they are part of the family.
Ds never buys anyone in the family a birthday card, but his birthdays are always recognised.

I feel like his slave I cook for him, make his lunch, do his washing, clean up after him for no thanks and if I so much as complain about his mess, or ask him to do something he tuts and huffs at me or says alright alright and then still doesn't.
I don't like the way I feel about him but it's hard to like him even if I love him deep down.

I tried to raise him right so he'd be a decent human being but his dad had the biggest influence and he turned out like him, he idolises his misogynistic dad who never had a good word to say about me or any woman so he doesn't feel the need to show me any respect either or my dh.

Op, I understand your reluctance to kick him out because you sense you won't hear from him when he leaves. You're probably right. But as someone who has been in your position, I can reassure you that once you're through the grief and letting go, there's peace on the other side. Let your son go and lead his life, and focus on making the most of the good things in yours.

OP's son is old enough now to bear responsibility for his own attitude and it's only him who can change it BUT if you're going to blame his Dad you have to reflect on your part in it too.

lots of people grow up listening to hateful attitudes about others, even from people as close as parents and are able to be different because they see and have different experiences that counteract those attitudes

you sound like you don't like him, you haven't said anything positive about him - he will know this, there is a huge link between people who hate women and those who felt didliked by their mothers.

you sound like you hate his dad - if you expressed this growing up (verbally OR non-verbally ) he may have internalised this as you hating men therefore him.

you say he has an attitude that women should serve him and then go on to say that you, a woman, serves him.

The details in your OP paint a picture of your son going to his Dads where he was told that he does not have a connection with women and that they are there to serve him then returned to your house where.....he does not have a connection with women and is served by them.

You had an opportunity to give him a different experience of women than the one his Dad paints. You have an oppportunity now to show him that you and your daughters do not deserve this and that women won't put up with it.

Your DS shouldn’t be managing anyone OP, why would you be encouraging him in such an unsuitable role for him and justifying it as a reason to keep him at home?

There must be other ways he can support himself financially without making other people’s lives miserable (at best).

He needs to find his own way in life and I wouldn’t be having him at home or wanting to support him to pursue this type of work.

He sounds awful but sorry you are enabling him with your weak boundaries (and blaming his dad).

This. And for cooking & doing his laundry like he’s a child. Stop rewarding his disgusting behaviour-he’s a GROWN MAN!!

I feel like his slave I cook for him, make his lunch, do his washing, clean up after him for no thanks

You're dumping all of ds's 'poor personality' at your ex's door. I think in addition to your ex being a problem you need to look a little closer to home.

FYI this isn't unique to men and boys. I'd change the way you run around after your dc or in a few years you'll have another two entitled arsehole adults in the house expecting you to be their slave.

This thread should serve as a warning for women who are thinking of having a baby with a fuckwit man. Run a mile and go to the sperm bank instead.

Came here to say this!
OP‘s son is living in a fantasy that he will ever be eligible for a management role as he currently is. He is confusing leadership with the status he thinks it will confer on him, a non-functioning adult with barely any discernible skills, social or otherwise. He may be the smartest person in the room but his current world view and mindset is going to handicap his work and life options for as long as he holds them.
someone earlier rightly mentioned that he is missing that transition from teenager to adult and all of the advice here is that he is in urgent need of a kick to the head to challenge his mindset. His ability to hide in your home from the consequences of his unevolved thinking is buffering real challenge he is going to experience from the outside world.
People have stated that he’s behaving like a 14 year old, but my nine year old has started with some of this behaviour and he is already being read the riot act by us about contributing and that I am not raising some bloke who thinks he can sit on his arse whilst the rest of us revolve around him. He hasn’t got the message yet but it’s ringing in his ears on a daily basis, with consequences, and I know my self (fully paid up feminista) so I know he soon will because on this my will is like iron.
OP, in your shoes, as so many have stated, there would be a clear and resounding statement from me that things are CHANGED and there there are requirements to be met in order for him to stay at home, with the consequences spelled out. As others have stated, I would do this in writing. I would personally likely make therapy a requirement to staying. You feel dreadful about the prospect of throwing him out, but if he refuses to engage in a functioning household, he’s the one who will be making this decision, not you. If you, your husband and girls act decisively and as one mind in this, things will be much more difficult. I fully suspect he will flounce out rather than be thrown out - again, all the better for you - after which, the reality of standing on his own to feet will do this hard work for you. Friends that put up with him socially now will start to fall away when his lifestyle choices impact directly on them. He’s had soft love - the kind that has tried to protect him from the sting of the world and he has valued it not one jot. What he needs now is some love of the tough kind.
i know it is be a terrible thing to feel your relationship is over, but currently it is all on his terms and as anyone who has been in these fractious situations knows, where one party dictates terms, that’s an interaction, not a relationship. I have unfortunately had a couple of occasions where I have had to say to family members „I love you, but not at any cost“ and have removed myself from their orbit, always waiting patiently and in hope for the Penny to drop: I appreciate this is enormously painful - but it’s honestly no more painful than the frankly abusive situation you are currently in.
Kindly, as things stand, you have already lost him, but hopefully only temporarily until he comes to his senses.
Wishing you and your family all the best. X

OP i have to agree with everyone else... this situation is so toxic and i bet my bottom dollar he follows andrew tate and agrees with his despicable views. OP... You Are all enabling him...my grandson age 12 says some things because hes around other boys at school but i pull him up...hey! No ...its not just up to women to clean..treat everyone with respect....no its not right etc etc..i have also said any disparaging comments about women or girls hes not welcome here. There should be mandatory lessons in school about misogyny... patriarchy... sexism...equality etc.
Your son sounds horrendous...whether he was at college or not at age 24...i would in no uncertain terms ... Tell him to leave and why. Hes a bully...to everyone...misogynistic... sexist...OP... These are traits of an abuser.

Therapy! He's still very young and can change. No one who is happy and is capable of healthy relationships behaves like this. If he won't go to therapy, you should go to try to understand how this has happened and how you can help and how to cope if whatever you try doesn't work.

Just have 3 little words:
kick him out

Give him his year notice now.

He needs to go nc with his dad or he'll always influence him.
If he won't then bye, go live with him.

Do you feel any responsibility for your two daughters. I can assure you this will be affecting them, and the fact they are younger teenagers probably means that it will be quite damaging. You have a good relationship with them now, but I wonder as they grow into adults what they will think of you. They will reflect on their upbringing and may even repeat these patterns in their relationships with men. You seem to be finding excuses, suggesting you stick it out until it’s a more convenient time for your son to move. He is a grown man and you are not actually helping him by enabling this awful behaviour. Are you scared of him? Cooking for him, doing his washing etc is your choice, but you are also choosing him over your other children.

Those of you that are saying he's not management material with his attitude haven't met some of mine

You can't force any DC adult or not to go NC with the other parent, especially with consequences like that

That’s amazing. You’re doing the right thing for you, your daughters, and your husband. 🙌

If he works he can afford to pay rent somewhere.

Op it's very tricky and I can see how this behaviour has developed over the years and you now find yourself living with a petulant manchild.

I think for your sake and that of your daughters' there needs to be some wholesale changes.

You and your DH sit him down and lay down the ground rules. It's your house your rules.

He is not your equal in the house and he needs to accept your rules.

Literally every time he breaks those rules you need to pull him up on it.

Dss is 19 and we have been quite hard on him re mess and clearing up and it was hard work but he is actually a pleasure to live with now and will for example just empty the dishwasher or put the bins out without being asked.

If your ds doesn't accept the rules then he can move out get his own place and set his own rules.

If you are cooking a family dinner then cook him some as it's no more effort but as for making his lunch and doing his washing sod that!

Please don't blame the dad . His behaviour could be like this for many reasons . Maybe it could be you who has created these bad habits. Throwing him out isn't a kind thing to do. You have failed him by not setting boundaries, sticking to them and then doing all his chores for him. We all need to take accountability and not always blame the other partner. Have you ever asked him why he talks and acts like this . Maybe just a Maybe he doesn't feel loved or treated with respect if your always shouting at him. I don't know the full story but I'm thinking of the bigger picture. What is he feeling? Why is he acting like this ?
Family is family
Kids have bad habits but we shouldn't give up on them
Our duty is to protect and nurture and set boundaries
Easier said than done I'm aware . But all we can do is try

Time for some tough love here. Your son is unhappy in a way with his own life but only he can change it. You say it is too late for him to change - it isn't!! He can't get and keep a girlfriend because of how he has been brought up with his own father as an example.
He is outspoken and rude about people and laughs at them. How would he feel if the boot was on the other foot? If he was on the receiving end of ridicule from people? Maybe you should laugh at him when he comes out with misogynstic comments and tell him remarks like that are what turn the girls off him? Argue back with reasonable comments and keep chipping away at his arrogance. You don't like him - then tell him - he's not a likeable person - that doesn't stop you loving him but you don't have to like him because of how he is. Encourage his independence - don't clean up for him, don't do his laundry, by all means cook a meal if he's sitting with the family - and keep telling him - he needs to learn how to be independent because you are not doing it for him anymore.
I understand your reasons for letting him live at home while finishing college but keep talking about when he moves out - you are not kicking him out - but he will be moving out if he ever finds a girlfriend or gets a decent job and because you want him to be an independent likeable young man. If he wants to be a manager he needs to prove that he can manage people without making nasty remarks - he can change - he just needs to learn that his way of treating people could end up with him getting pulled down a peg or two verbally if not physically judging by society today.

You're treating him like a spoilt teenager then wonder why he is acting like a spoilt teenager.

Sofa psychology time - I reckon his dad's depression and anxiety is the root cause, he's afraid he'll end up like that or thinks his dad is weak, all the bravado is bluff but deep down he's frightened and unsure what it means to be a man.

He's interested in management - can he do work experience with someone in a managerial role? You don't last long treating people like shit. A good manager actually needs to be sensitive and a good listener as well as firm when required.

Can you get him into counselling, or see if he'll read books that widen his perspective - whether on management or psychology or just life?

And I'd work out what leverage you have while he's at home - food, laundry, internet, access to tech or netflix etc, and make use of them contingent on him doing chores and behaving decently.

If you won't throw him out, you can make life less nice. And those things aren't reliant on him listening.

Just boot him out, his attitude is disgusting & it's about time he took responsibility for himself & his behaviour. Believe me, he won't know what's hit him, stop making excuses for him (College etc, he can continue that wherever he lives!!) Horrible excuse for a man!!

‘His dad doesn't work because he's had depression and anxiety for about 15 years and is completely dependent on his wife’.

I forgot to say. Give me a break. What a lazy lazy man. In 15years his ‘depression and anxiety’ could have been treated.

His wife needs to kick him out too. The dad and son can live together in a woman free misogynistic bubble.

I sometimes think my DS could have ended up like this. The unwarranted superiority complex. The desperate need to ‘win’ at life manifesting as a need to put others down.

Mine has two sisters who rip him to shreds if he says something idiotic. They think I mollycoddle him compared to how I interact with them but I recognise his struggle against toxic influences and the stresses of becoming a man. Luckily I am a senior manager and main breadwinner so he has to respect that.

DS spends too much time online. We have had some interesting discussions about stuff he’s picked up there. It’s been a battle but he’s turning out to be a thoroughly decent young man. Has got himself a girlfriend now who is very smart and keeps him in line. I do feel for you OP. It’s a constant fight against the Tates of this world.

Make sure you comment often about men who can’t cope without women. And stop skivvying.