To love but not like my adult son.

[redcloudsunshine]

I am quite prepared to be bashed and told what an awful monster I am but I can't help the way I feel.
I have an adult son living at home, he's 24 and I just don't like him.
His opinion on woman is disgusting and disrespectful, he's rude to dh and I and has the attitude of a stroppy teen.
He won't do anything asked of him, and if spoken to about anything gives back chat.
He doesn't clean up after himself, has ruined our home by making stains on carpets and scuffs on paintwork etc that he shouts wasn't on purpose if anyone dares to say anything.
He has a very loud annoying laugh that he uses anytime anyone has any misfortune and thoroughly enjoys mocking and putting everyone down.
I think he learnt most of his ways from his dad who had him every weekend growing up, he too hates woman.
I think it's too late to try and change him now, he's set in his way and as far as he's concerned he's right about woman and nothing will change his mind.
He reads books on power and control under the guise of it being assertive management which he claims will benefit him when he gets to be a manager.
We also have two daughters with current dh who live at home although they're younger teens and they are so different, they are polite and friendly and sit with us and talk to us like human beings, we have a brilliant relationship and lots of fun together, they act like they are part of the family.
Ds never buys anyone in the family a birthday card, but his birthdays are always recognised.

I feel like his slave I cook for him, make his lunch, do his washing, clean up after him for no thanks and if I so much as complain about his mess, or ask him to do something he tuts and huffs at me or says alright alright and then still doesn't.
I don't like the way I feel about him but it's hard to like him even if I love him deep down.

I tried to raise him right so he'd be a decent human being but his dad had the biggest influence and he turned out like him, he idolises his misogynistic dad who never had a good word to say about me or any woman so he doesn't feel the need to show me any respect either or my dh.

So, you are a woman and he doesn't like you.
You have nothing to lose by stopping doing his washing and by insisting everyone in the house over the age of 16 cooks one meal for the whole family every week and has weekly cleaning chores such as cleaning the toilet, bathroom, emptying the dishwasher and putting away or vacuuming.
Your son's residence there with you should also include him helping with back yard and garden maintenance when it needs doing.

You won't change his attitude but you can still influence his behaviour in your home. By becoming experienced at living more respectfully with others your son might, over time, be better company and more useful. He will have less time to be cackling and gloating at least.

You should also make it a condition for remaining living with his sisters that he doesn't voice his nasty opinions about women and that he starts saying thankyou and please. Your husband should strictly insist that, though he might not FEEL thankull nor like saying please, he has to use his manners and behave like a real man.
Get him to look up the rules of being a real cowboy, in fact have them made into a poster and give that to him next birthday.

Apologies to OP @redcloudsunshine if this is a derail.

Just feel I need to comment on the MN default that when people post that ‘DH/DS is being a dick’, and PPs ask ‘is he autistic?’ [or the trying to be gentler ‘neurodiverse’] it is more than a little wearying and, frankly, rather offensive. My entire family is ND, all four of us (DH/DS/DD and myself) are ASD, two of us with ADHD on top. My DH can be an insensitive OCD twit, my DD can be a fricking nightmare, I can be oversensitive - and we all struggle to regulate emotion (esp when tired, on a period, menopausal, ill) and on it goes.

Not a one of us - nor my 3 ND siblings - would ever treat another person like shit. We occasionally get caught up in the intensity of what we’re feeling and say/do something we come to regret (deeply, agonisingly), but recognise after the fact that perhaps we over-reacted, behaved in a less than ideal way - and changed our behaviours.

Autistics are often perceived as having black and white thinking and of being un-empathic - but my experience of 7 ASD family members across 2 generations is that they actually have a very strong and often rigid moral code. This makes them deeply loyal, fiercely protective of those they love or who are in their tribe, and the conflicts arise when others fall short of that code. Naturally, there are also autistics who behave like dicks, just as there are in the neurotypical population - but being ASD does not give a person a pass to treat people badly, to be rude, lazy, obnoxious and nor is it a natural default behaviour anyway.

The OP doesn’t describe her DS as having been difficult all his life, only that he copies his father and the inference is that that this is post divorce. If OP hasn’t picked up on ND traits before now, then I think the approach needs to be to tackle him on his behaviour, explain how it is impacting everyone else and state that if it continues, she will help him get student housing/a bedsit as - despite how much she loves him - his continued cohabitation is untenable.

Sorry, defensive TEDtalk over.

I’d ask him to move out. The fact that he can’t keep a girlfriend, disrespects his Mum and sisters and doesn’t get on with his Step Mum says it all really! Very low opinion of women and needs to go be self sufficient and realise how real life works!

The thing is while you are doing the things you are doing it reinforces his view that women are there to do the beckoning of men. It’s like you are being the women that he thinks all women are. Put a stop to it now. Set the ground rules for living in your house. Do you charge him rent? If not you should be. He should also have set chores including the cooking on occasion either for himself or the rest of the family.

I think he needs therapy and if he won't get help he needs to start taking care of himself such as doing the cooking, cleaning and laundry and helping you around the house. Then he needs to move out and get his own place and grow up. My Son is similar but he doesn't live with me and he's 27. I absolutely wouldn't allow him to treat me badly without consequences and that's why he doesn't live with me. Best if you do the same.

I'm confused as to why you and your husband have let someone who hates women live in the same home as your daughters? Both you and your husband are teaching your daughters that men can do and say whatever they want and women just have to put up with it. Why would anyone teach their daughters that? And why reinforce his belief that women are second class citizens by continuing to support him? You aren't doing him any favours by letting him in his fantasy alpha man world

The more you do for him, the less respect he will have for you. You are reinforcing his perception that women can and should be treated like shit because the only point of them is to serve the man. You are encouraging his perspective.

Stop it now. His course? Don’t give a shit. If he wants to do better professionally then he can bloody well sort it out. Get angry op, you have the power to make him a better person here and while you’re indulging him, you’re making it worse.

Oh come on! He is clearly getting everything he wants from this situation. If anyone is going to be depressed here, it’s the family members living with him. He is a spoilt man child who needs pushing out of the nest!

Bottom line, you’re treating a 24 year old like a 14 year old. Actually, my autistic 13 year old son does more, my autistic 17 year old daughter does lots more. Why? Well because I’m preparing them to be independent adults. Your son IS capable! Kick him out, let him grow up!

You have basically just described my younger brother. He was diagnosed autistic in his mid teens. Presented as raging mysoginist, hard right political views, was a total arse to my parents, abusive, disgusting behaviour. He trashed the house, doors hanging off, windows hanging off their hinges. Shouting everyone down.

however he also started taking drugs as a teen and it was like arrested development. He never matured past age 14. Meanwhile my sister (also autistic) was totally different.

sadly my brother died in his late thirties, probably a complication from years of drug addiction, not helped by my dad who excused his behaviour and allowed him to sponge and steal from him at home.

I don’t have a good answer, but as long as he doesn’t have addictions I would kick him out and see how he copes.

Andrew Tate fans have serious problems.
They get off on exploiting women and their whole raison d'etre is to manipulate women into doing what the man wants. Exploitation of women is normalised and encouraged. Read about Andrew Tate and how he turned his girlfriends into sex workers making money for him. As his mum, you don't fit into that sexual category so he's manipulating you in different ways. Tate's acolytes get a sense of power from this process, which they use to hide the deep inadequacy that lies inside them.

A misogynistic little power player is never going to become a successful manager with a long thriving career. He'll have workplace complaints by the wheelbarrow load and to be honest, it'll happen quickly if he is as unfiltered as you say. The masters isn't going to fix this. A year isn't going to transform him into someone better. And he's going to be at home for far longer than you plan for more unless you do something.

And it's interesting that you mentioned about his interest in management and the associated power games he wants to play.

You know what you need to do.

I have skimmed all OP’s posts but I’m still stuck on him learning all of this from weekends with his dad. Just.. two days a week made him into a bad person…

Time for him to move out and get his own place.

Kick him out!!! He’s behaving like a spoiled stupid boy.
Honestly, move on. You done the parenting thing. You don’t need to do it any more.
let him grow up on his own. Divorce him as your son.

Kick him out, how he will manage really isn’t your problem.

I think part of me knows when he moves out he'll probably not stay in contact much and maybe that's why I'm hesitant to kick him out, when he moved in with his dad for a year and a half I rarely heard from him and texts were not answered.

I thinks it's inevitable that when he's gone he's gone so maybe I'm trying too hard.

@redcloudsunshine Frankly, considering the way he acts, and how he disrespects you and your husband, very low contact may be ideal.

Anyone who reads books on power and control is not fit to manage. He's not interested in managing, he's interested in dictating - and he's doing it to you.

Unfortunately, you're in a no-win situation. If he stays and continues to walk all over you, it reinforces his idea that women are there to be abused. If you order him to leave, it reinforces his idea that woman are unreasonable bitches.

So, you will have to do what works for you and never mind his ideas. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being wrong no matter what you do? That's unreasonable and unworkable. Time for him to be given a short, sharp shock - not an easy thing to do but it's that or a life of thankless servitude.

He lived with his dad full time for a year and a half, virtually nc with his mum during that time

He’s bullying you OP. when you tell him what you think and he laughs or undermines or mocks you, that’s bullying. Stay strong, stick to your message, don’t be put off by his response. Practice it in front of the mirror first, like it’s a script.

Stop doing shit for this asshole. Seriously. You are reinforcing his stereotype that women are doormats.

Stop being a doormat and boot his ass out.

THIS.

Well stop doing it for him then. Tell him to go and live with his dad as he thinks so highly of him. My severely autistic daughter does more around the house than your ds. If she is capable of doing something dd wants to do it.

She peels and chops veg she help prepare Sunday roasts and Christmas dinner. She will make her own sandwiches and help prepare a picnic she can sort laundry colours and dark etc. She does get obsessive with washing up and hoovering but don't we all have something we obsess over!

Her favourite chores are putting her clothes away and the shopping. Which I'm happy to let her do I hate doing it.

He needs to go. He has no respect for you, your DH or the other kids in the house. He is disrespectful and yet demands being taken care of. I u destined you love him, but you're doing him no favours. He won't live with his SM- probably because she does put more rules in place. I'd give him a firm move out date, giving him time to save a bit first for rent if he doesn't have any- I also would be stopping any household chores for him that don't affect you- eg his washing and cooking for him. Respect is 2 ways and he does nothing to earn yours.

if he were mine I would pack his bags, put them outside the front door and have the locks changed.
Why on earth should he be allowed to continue making your life a misery. Horrid young man who needs a big wakeup call!!!
Good luck.

Come off it, there are loads of single parents who's kids don't act like twats...the OPs son should have been reined in YEARS ago, he wasn't and now this is the fallout, he needs a dam good bollocking not therapy.