To cancel seeing a friend because she asked to invite someone else

[Sundaycoffee]

I've had a 1:1 catch up in the diary with a friend for over a month now. I haven't seen her since the beginning of January and was looking forward to a "proper" chat. There's been a few things going on in my life (which she knows I wanted to discuss) and hers and I got the impression there would be some personal, more intimate things for us both to download on. She keeps going on about how she hasn't seen me in ages and there's so much to catch up on.
It was a lunch date (we had booked a bottomless brunch just the two of us).
Today she's messaged saying her other friend is also free and is it ok if she invites her? I've met this woman maybe 3 or 4 times over the past couple of years in group situations but wouldn't call her a friend.
I've told her I would rather it just be the two of us and it would change the dynamic a bit. She said that was ok but tbh I'm feeling a bit irritated that she clearly would rather this other person join and have more of a social chat rather than the more personal 1:1 meet that we had planned. Almost like my company alone isn't good enough and I now can't shake that feeling that I now know she would rather bring another person along and I had to be the one to say no.
I almost feel like saying to her, you guys catch up and we can do another time. The meeting I was looking forward to just feels a bit tarred now. Feel a bit silly and undervalued as a friend for her even just to ask. AIBU feeling this way?

If you only use "put on the spot" to mean being asked in the hearing/presence/knowledge of the other person then I see why you disagree with my use of that phrase. Especially if you were using my "TLDR" which, of course, was a summary.

I meant put on the spot of either accepting something she's not happy with or potentially feeling mean saying no to inviting the other person.

"I think it was unreasonable of your friend to put you on the spot by putting that on you at this stage. Unless you were both good friends with the other woman.

If I had a very good reason to want to include the other one, the most I'd do is mention that I think they'd like to come but that it would change the dynamic. That would make it easier for you to say no by just agreeing with that."

I agree I think she’s probably wanting to include another person to change the dynamic and lighten things up a bit. Sometimes people don’t want to get a massive off load even from a friend. It can be exhausting to listen to especially when you’re supposed to be having a nice lunch. She probably doesn’t enjoy it and feels depleted by it

If OP values her friendship it 15 years she wouldn’t have created this post on mumsnet.

If after 15 years she doesn’t know if her friend values her and she needs strangers on mumsnet to tell her, then she can end her friendship and move on.

sorry but her post sounded sos childish and immature, really the meeting is now tarred?

Do you think her friend of 15 years would be happy if she came across this thread?

So that gives people the right to verbally abuse and name call the OP does it? Good grief, I despair

Oh gosh, I HATE when people do this! It’s the height of rudeness IMO. My MIL is the same, inviting countless other family members when I have offered to cook.
You have every right to cancel if you don’t want to go, now this other person is tagging along.

OP sounds heavy? You sound shallow.

Good friendships between mature people do sometimes entail conversations about serious/deep matters, and many close friendships include and welcome this provided it's not overdone. It's called mutual emotional support. Your sneering at that as 'heavy and loooooong conversation', 'emotional dependency and heaviness' says a lot about you imo.

What do you talk about when you meet up with your friends, then? Spend the whole time talking about what you've watched on TV and discussing what to order off the menu? And what happens if a friend does have something important they want to confide, do you sit there cracking jokes to 'dilute' things? Bloody hell.

So that gives people the right to verbally abuse and name call the OP does it? Good grief, I despair

I did not say that. OP asked if she was being unreasonable- people told her yes she is and explained why. It's not abuse to say a reaction is dramatic if it IS in fact, dramatic.

I agree with this. I'd be so upset if all I did was invite someone to a meet up and my friend of 15 years was posting over MN that I didnt "value her" as a result.

Not nice. You should know after 15 years of friendship and being there for someone if they value you or not.

It could be she's just not in the right frame of mind at the moment for a deep heavy discussion about life and was hoping to lighten the meeting a bit by bringing this other person along. I have an intense friend who I love dearly, but I always come away feeling quite down after seeing her because our chats are so negative. I can't always handle it when I'm having a hard time too so tend to either avoid her a little, or arrange to meet somewhere where it is harder to have those types of conversations.

Poor OP can't win here... some are saying yes you must be terrible company, others are calling it drama to be wondering what to, if anything, read into it.

The fact that the negative possibly would occur to several posters surely backs up it being reasonable for op to wonder.

Especially when it was known that very personal things were to be discussed and friend had seemed on board with that.

My thought is, as always, that I would have switched from messaging to actual conversation, to get a feel for why friend suddenly wanted to change the dynamic.

So I would have asked friend why (but not in writing) as part of deciding my reply.

But in this new world, where it seems no longer the done thing to just have a voice conversation if you could type instead (even if there is potential for misunderstandings), then asking anonymously is a way of checking one's reasoning.

But I'm not sure how we can generalise that people aren't seeing improvements in their happiness and mental health. Personally I'd say mine has definitely improved since I've become more mindful as to what I spent time and mental capital on.

This from the BMA:
COVID-19 has only accelerated this trend, driving an increase in the number of people who are in contact with secondary mental health services. Mental health services in England received a record 4.6 million referrals during 2022 (up 22% from 2019), with the number of people in contact with mental health services steadily rising. As demand goes up pressure will be felt not only on mental health services but on general practice, at a time when GPs continue to face the wide-ranging impacts of the pandemic.

And of course, there's a massive increase in child and young peoples' mental health issues because children became isolated during Covid. Friends who teach (secondary and HE) report major issues with MH and behavioural issues (young people unable to navigate their way through ordinary social and work interractions). My local university's student services department is constantly advertising for people qualified to offer MH support.

Not a lot of signs of improved happiness and better MH from where I'm standing. I'm someone who, left to my own devices, probably wouldn't socialise very much. But I have a very social partner who pushes me to go to out and so stuff with others and almost always, afterwards, I feel lifted by the contact with others. Every time I read the research showing how important socialising is to good mental health I feel very lucky to have a partner who tests my boundaries.

I think that if you start to think of friendship as 'investing mental capital' you are in choppy waters. My most enduring and rewarding friendships are with two women whom I would never have thought I had much in common, and would never have spotted as being the remarkable, strong and supportive people I've come to know. I think the best friendships surprise you and do sometimes involve investing mental capital — because all good relationships require give and take and stretching yourself.

They're not tagging along, as you put it. OP's friend asked her how she'd feel if the friend's friend was to come along. OP said she wouldn't like it. Friend said okay and so the other friend isn't included. Friend has behaved perfectly reasonably.

i have friends that I meet 1:1 as it’s an opportunity to chat about things neither of us want to mention in front of others. So I understand that point from OP l

In fairness though, if that was the intention, I wouldn’t be picking a bottomless brunch. They’re usually in busy environments and the idea is to knock back plenty of drinks. I’ve never heard of anyone arranging a bottomless brunch when they’re planning on discussing heavy stuff.

@SoapiesChoice let me introduce you to @Sundaycoffee You both sound as if you would get on with each other. There might be the opportunity for a friendship here. I'm relatively new to Mumsnet, but there is probably a way of DMing each other privately. It would be nice to think something positive came out of this thread.

Huh, really? The OP and friend had a plan, friend asked to change plan, OP declined. Friend said okay. There's really nothing to be mortified over, OP hasn't put her friend in that situation' lol. Friend has put herself in the situation, and that's perfectly okay as there's nothing wrong with asking and nothing wrong with saying no.

OP does seem a bit intense though and I wonder if friend sensed this and that's why she fancied asking someone else too... sounds a bit like OP wanted it to be more like a therapy session, and I know it can be so draining with friends like that. OP's friend might well love her and want to see her but not be capable right now of the sort of intense in depth emotional thing OP is desiring.

OP, I would suggest you have the hang out anyway but try something a bit different and make an effort to make it a bit more fun and light. Of course you can talk about how you've been and what's been going on, but definitely make sure to have some fun and lightness too, ask about your friend's life, how she's doing.

I'm just curious, not criticising. Do you ever just tell her "I'm sorry I would struggle with a heavy conversion at the moment" when she asks to meet? So she knows why you are dodging her sometimes. Or so she could say she'd like to meet anyway but to try having a break from her troubles with you instead of using the meet to talk about them.

Someone further up made a similarly valid point as yours that in the past they were well up for all kinds of gossip, drama, heavy talk etc but no longer have the patience/headspace for it (I'm paraphrasing, but hopefully close enough).

So they are distancing themself from a friend who is always heavy chat.

I found myself wondering if they had ever told the friend they feel differently these days offering the friend a chance to still meet up but with a different dynamic. Of course they are under no obligation to see the friend but if that were the only issue I would tell the friend rather than expect them to just know why I was backing off.

Good grief, what on earth is wrong with starting a very polite anonymous thread on MN for perspective? Do you have an approved list of topics for us?

Your black and white view of people suggests that you are not the easy going drama free person you are trying to paint yourself as.

I think this highlights the difference between Askers and Guessers- this blew my mind when I first read it. Looks like she's an Asker and you're a Guesser so you have different interpretations of how (un)reasonable that request is.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/change-life-asker-guesser

I'm a Guesser too and it can lead to a lot of overthinking!

Enjoy your brunch OP

That is the other way to look at it 😂

I know I'd speak my mind far more bluntly with alcohol in my system. I wouldn't be as gentle as they may need me to be.

Good grief, what on earth is wrong with starting a very polite anonymous thread on MN for perspective? Do you have an approved list of topics for us?

Interesting how its ok for the OP to vent her feelings yet when anyone else does they're apparently wrong.

You are being just as rude/snarky here as the people you are attacking for doing the same.

Don't cancel! You'll be doing yourself out of a nice 1 to 1 for no reason. Your friend probably just double-booked herself and didn't realise you'd feel disrespected by her asking for a plus one.

Full disclosure - l've done this and l'd be horrified if the original friend felt put out. In my case l was meeting up with one mate for a couple of days in London and another friend who lives abroad was going to be in town for a work thing and wanted us to go to a show. OriginalFriend was agreeable so we went and had a great night. I'd have been cool with it if she had said no, though, as she had first dibs - if you see what l mean?

Just go and enjoy - don't overthink it!

Wow thanks for sharing! Today I learned.. I'm an Asker. And I have indeed fallen out with at least one Guesser in my lifetime, one of whom op strongly reminded me of.

If op's name starts with K and lives in Surrey... I think I know you and I'm sorry we've drifted apart

No, I don't say that to her because it isn't really about her and I wouldn't want her to feel bad about it. Like I said I love her. I don't want to hurt her. But I know she would take it personally, like I find her too much or I don't want to be her friend. But it really is just that I am unable to handle any more negativity sometimes. That sometimes I can't provide her with what she needs. The rest of the time I can handle it fine. I wouldn't cancel plans or change plans after they are made, but I purposely don't make plans too far in advance because I know I don't know how I am going to feel closer to the time.

Why do you need to vent your feelings on a stranger? That says more about you than the OP. At least the OP has a genuine AIBU, you are all just piling on to be rude and snarky for the sake of it.

And no, defending OP's right to start a thread does not mean I have said no one else can do it, how ridiculous of you to suggest it.

If she is such a good friend you need to cut her some slack… it’s quite normal for her to think ‘oo why don’t we meet together’ if her friend asked her to meet up the same day. It’s good she asked you first. The more the merrier is a saying for a reason.

Does not mean she does not love or value you.