Is Keir Starmer right?

[AdamRyan]

Today he called the Conservatives "the political wing of the flat earth society" following Liz Truss' comments about the deep state in the US.

I am a big starmer fan, so want to sanity check my opinion, which is that the Conservatives seem to have bought into a lot of conspiracy theories recently, such as "no go" areas in Birmingham, London being "controlled by Islamists", the civil service being run by transactivists as well as Truss' comments.

Or do you think this is a smear and the Conservatives are being reasonable?

If I had a third option I'd also include a "meh - not interested" option for people

Video for people who want to listen to what Starmer said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68418502?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65df29c746578322549bdd92%26Watch%3A%20Starmer%20says%20Tories%20are%20%E2%80%98political%20wing%20of%20flat%20earth%20society%E2%80%99%262024-02-28T12%3A52%3A33.349Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:091e6916-4b3d-4198-adef-cf8a7b9e76bb&pinned_post_asset_id=65df29c746578322549bdd92&pinned_post_type=share

YABU - the Conservatives are not getting sucked into conspiracies, this is a smear

YANBU - the Conservatives need a large consignment of tin foil ASAP

Extremist supporters of the Palestinian cause you mean.

And did you see the footage of council meetings in Walsall and Stoke on Trent being disrupted a few days ago? That wasn't the Far Right was it?

Left leaning parties propose gender self ID = not a culture war.

You are mistaken there @Underthinker, unless you think the Tories under PM May was a left leaning party.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

Extremist positions are being taken everywhere. That's my point. Attributing it to a particular sector of society is at best inflammatory and at worst down right racist.

Ex PM Truss is so far down the rabbit hole she'll be on a panel with General Woundwort next.

So far she's blamed misogyny, the "leftist" international money markets and now the "Deep State" for her disastrous mini budget. No Liz, you drove the UK economy over a cliff with your combination of incompetence and arrogance.🙄

David Amess was murdered by a Muslim extremist. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right extremist. Outside the UK, Yitzak Rabin was murdered by a pro-Israeli extremist. Gandhi was murdered by a Hindu extremist. Extremists are dangerous and divisive rhetoric is more likely to make people extremist.

Heres a clip I recently watched about some of the dangers around conspiracy theories. What Anderson/Truss are saying will resonate with people who believe theories like this.

twitter.com/i/status/1762263775724339636

@TooBigForMyBoots that is unfair to General Woundwort.

It’s not my terminology, or my war for that matter. Despite Penny’s instructions to ‘fight, fight, fight’ I feel no particular urge to fight my neighbours and countrymen.

Whether you or I as individuals subscribe to the term as a definition or not is immaterial to a following of people who do respond to that kind of terminology and ideology.

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/15/lee-andersons-culture-wars-how-the-conservative-party-is-flirting-with-far-right-hate-to-appeal-to-its-base/

As a terror threat, in the UK, Muslim extremists have been and are, more dangerous. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
Remember the Westminster Bridge attack, and the Ariana Grande concert?

Soho pub bomb. Jo Cox. Threat from older Right wing terrorists a concern. 3 in court today for plan to attack mosque. Tit for tat. It helps nobody.

I don’t think people really need reminding of terrorist attacks that have taken place on British soil.

However, during months of protests in support of Palestine I don’t think I’ve missed any terror attacks taking place or being reported as ‘near misses’. That’s not to say there’ll never be any committed in the name of Palestine and/or Gaza but it’s self evident that it’s plain wrong to lump all Muslims into one category.

Hmmm. Remember the Plymouth shootings or the Finsbury Park attacks?

Yes - disrupting council meetings is not terrorism.
We are lucky to have a right to protest in the UK.

Thanks cornet. Wow. "When someone tells you who they are, believe them" seems appropriate.

Not to mention the RW violence at Asylum hotels.

I was tempted to mention the mass murderers Derrick Bird and Raoul Moat but white male atrocities are usually written off as "one bad apple". Pretty sure if either of them were Muslim they'd have been on sausages list though.

And also suspect they had far right sympathies, given the guns.

Well, I'm glad you're OK with council meetings being disrupted. Seems indicative of a certain mind set imo

Hi not mistaken. I remember May proposing self ID then it was dropped. Now in the UK it is left leaning parties who favour it, chiefly the greens and SNP.
Which is all irrelevant to the general point that on some issues, advocating one side will often be derided as fighting a culture war, but advocating the opposite view on the exact same issue won't be.

I'm OK with right to protest, yes. Would rather not live in the kind of country where it is banned. They tend to be rather authoritarian, anti free speech and I'd rather not.

That's bollocks.
It wasn't "dropped" - feminists campaigning got the Conservatives to U turn on it. As labour have also done.

Meanwhile conspiracy theories about the civil service being run by transactivists are being promulgated by Conservative MPs.

The "culture war" is the conspiracy theory stuff, not the opposing opinions

The tories have drifted much further to the right over the last 14 years, to the extent that many of the MPs now hold what I would consider hard-right/extreme views. I wouldn't characterise them as conspiracy theorists though - more like hard-right bigots.

@Cornettoninja I know "cultute war" isn't your terminology originally, it's become hugely widespread in political reporting.

I just think the whole concept is inflammatory and polarising. We're not as polarised as the US yet, but lumping huge ranges of views on topics as broad as immigration, gender, Royal family, heritage, and many more into a culture war drives us further in that direction. It's good for a few left and right leaning news outlets but no one else.

Ordinarily I'd agree (although I'm not sure I'd necessarily use the word bigot) but Truss went beyond that. I think I might have been listening to too much Jon Ronson but I just can't help feeling there's a heap of them playing to a racist gallery I can't see