Is Keir Starmer right?

[AdamRyan]

Today he called the Conservatives "the political wing of the flat earth society" following Liz Truss' comments about the deep state in the US.

I am a big starmer fan, so want to sanity check my opinion, which is that the Conservatives seem to have bought into a lot of conspiracy theories recently, such as "no go" areas in Birmingham, London being "controlled by Islamists", the civil service being run by transactivists as well as Truss' comments.

Or do you think this is a smear and the Conservatives are being reasonable?

If I had a third option I'd also include a "meh - not interested" option for people

Video for people who want to listen to what Starmer said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68418502?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65df29c746578322549bdd92%26Watch%3A%20Starmer%20says%20Tories%20are%20%E2%80%98political%20wing%20of%20flat%20earth%20society%E2%80%99%262024-02-28T12%3A52%3A33.349Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:091e6916-4b3d-4198-adef-cf8a7b9e76bb&pinned_post_asset_id=65df29c746578322549bdd92&pinned_post_type=share

YABU - the Conservatives are not getting sucked into conspiracies, this is a smear

YANBU - the Conservatives need a large consignment of tin foil ASAP

Is it just me, or is it a little bit rum for an elected representative of the UK to fuck off to a foreign country in order to be able to shit on their own country ?

I'm far from a flag waving patriot, but it strikes me as a little close to giving our enemies abroad comfort.

I don’t think those things are conspiracy theories, but the tories are the ones who’ve been in power so it’s all happened on their watch. Sir Keith would probably do much better to examine the reasons why one might believe those things to be true, and challenge the Tories on how and why those things have been allowed to happen.

Labour’s problem for years now has been that they won’t listen to anything they don’t want to hear, and instead shout bigot and gammon at the people saying it. It’s not their fault they’ve continuously missed open goals and allowed the hideous shambles that is the Tories to keep getting elected, it’s the electorate’s fault for being wrong. It’ll be why they’ll probably snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this time as well.

don’t get me wrong, I hate the Tories and would never vote for them, but at this point I’m not even sure I could hold my nose long enough to vote labor either.

I agree. I also think we'll see some defections to Reform after the election too. It'll depend on who replaces Sunak later this year.

It’s the elephant in the room. Everyone knows that it’s not supporters of Israel who are threatening democratically elected British politicians & their staff. But everyone is too intimidated to point out who is doing it. Because to do so would be seen as ‘inflammatory’. So we have this entirely spurious mud-slinging, because nobody is prepared to speak the truth.
Last week we saw Tower Bridge closed, antisemitic slogans on a light display on Big Ben, and 6 police having to protect a branch of Starbucks (and their customers) from pro-palestinian supporters. No arrests.
But, according to MPs, the problem is Islamophobia, and can they have £31m to protect themselves from a threat that they claim doesn't exist.
It is the maddest time in UK politics I've ever known.

To know if he was right I'd need to read both Liz Truss's comments and what he said about them, I dont feel inclined to read either.

A guy who thinks women can have a penis is denying reality just as much as the flat earth society though, so for that reason a bit of a silly comment from him.

Thing is, these conspiracies:
/shadowy forces have only been referenced by notable members of the Tory party: Johnson, Dorries, Truss and Anderson (who was the only one to voice a name if not details) probably more in less public arenas.

How is Starmar or any other party leader for that matter meant to address vague insinuations ‘clearly and concisely’. It’s all performative bluster to appeal to the extreme right wing whilst being able to maintain plausible deniability which stops centre right voters completely jumping ship and gives their more unpalatable views an air of respectable justification. So long as they’re not required to examine the too closely for too long.

Yep. “Conspiracy Theory” as a term can be used to easily silence things that may or may not be true, which is dangerous in the long run..

Tories probably shouldn’t be running such a heavy campaign on culture wars if they’re so powerless then.

Why is it only a "culture war" when one side expresses their views?

Left leaning parties propose gender self ID = not a culture war.
People object to gender self ID = pushing a culture war.

Publishing a positive story about immigration = not a culture war
Publishing a negative story about immigration = a culture war.

It doesn't really make sense.

Research has shown that on the topics that get lumped into "the culture wars" most people have diverse views and there aren't really the 2 tribes that the likes of both the Guardian and the Daily Mail would like to lump us all into.

I've listened to a few debates on this issue and I often hear arguments around the police not inflaming tensions by wading in.

I would agree if it were minor infractions but there are now clear and undeniable disparities between the way these marches are policed and the way far right marches are policed.

There was footage of someone throwing an egg at Martin Daubney last week while standing right next to a policeman. Who simply watched on. You may well hate MD (and I'm sure Mumsnet does), but that doesn't excuse the lack of police action.

Simply put, the police are scared of actively policing the pro-Palestinian marches.

I think the tbecuase the Conservative Party leadership is mostly made up of ridiculous posh, out of touch twats, it's very easy to forget what they haven't - their constituents are NOT all posh, wealthy twats. A lot of Tory supporters are perfectly normal working-middle class people who are very quick to believe or buy into to the rhetoric of "those ghettos in Birmingham that we need to be protected from" or whatever bullshit thing is out there usually around immigration, benefits etc.

I have Conservative Party supporter friends, but nonetheless, it seems to me that a LOT of rank and file Tories lack basic thinking and analysis skills.

We're not paying Guardian commenters to be our elected representatives though. If Sunak has withdrawn the whip from Lee Anderthal then why not Liz Truss who's over in the US cuddling up to the lunatic fringe.

Well Keir thinks women have penises, which is more batshit and dangerous than a belief in a flat earth.

Fair point. I could have cited wacky beliefs from actual politicians though, such as Dawn Butler's comments that "Babies are born without a sex" or "90% of giraffes are gay". Or from Lib Dem Layla Moran who believes she can "see into people's souls".

I don't believe a word that comes out of Starmers mouth. If he will lie about women having a penis and gaslighting us about that he is not worthy of my trust as a woman.

As I say that as a now ex LP member.

I'm pretty sure the London being controlled by Islamists/anti sadiq Khan stuff was started by Trump. As with everything that man does, it is all about making Trump great again.

Tories scavenging the crumbs of culture wars, as 30pLee promised a few weeks ago, because the Cupboard Of Policies is bare. Cynical, deceptive manipulation because it worked in 2019 and their fingers are crossed people are daft enough to fall for it twice. Not one principle to share amongst the lot of them.

I do find it extremely alarming that a recent (albeit fleeting) British Prime Minister is aligning with nut jobs in the US who are actively and unapologetically seeking to overthrow democracy.

GasPanic
Local government can be held accountable for their handling of affairs

It's also reasonable to point out that so much of the mess that local authorities are having to deal with is caused (or at the very least heavily influenced) by national government policies.

If funding to local authorities is cut they have to do the same statutory services on less. If certain national funds are only allowed to be used in certain areas, the LA's hands are tied.

The levelling up fund is a nice example. Quite a lot of that funding has gone to affluent areas. Interesting that the poorest areas who are getting less funding are generally labour areas and the areas getting more are more affluent and conservative. I don't think that's a coincidence.

They are terrified of a total annihilation at the election ( instead of your usual defeat of a party that has been in government a long time) so are casting around for distractions and cracking up into factions so they can rebuild from the ashes. In opposition they will cycle through nut jobs to their hearts content and maybe either they will turn back to being a centre right party or they will implode and be replaced by some things else. Their core voters are increasingly elderly and haven't done a thing to attract younger people.Its a rage against the dying of the light.

“Welcome to the end of democracy. We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on Jan 6 but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here. That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.”

The words of another speaker (that received rapturous applause) at the CPAC conference that Truss was supporting.

She is throwing her lot in with those who would replace the US’s democracy with an extreme religious theocracy (in a country where we are already seeing access to abortion stripped from women, and laws declaring embryos to have the same legal rights as children).

There’s a real chance of Gilead manifesting in the US - with a little help from our more deranged Conservative MPs.

YANBU.

I am firmly of the opinion that the Conservative Party is several miles over the madness horizon and accelerating for quite some time now. Mostly because they are petrified of total electoral oblivion and are throwing everything they possibly can at the wall to see what sticks. No matter how mental it is.

The election cannot come soon enough.

OMG!!

I'm rewriting my withdrawn post because I was a bit harsh before.
"From the river to the sea" was projected onto Big Ben, and its not widely accepted that that is anti semitic. Netanyahu uses it himself to talk about his vision for Israel.

Yes MPs are scared and the threat is real. But it's not from Muslims, its from extremists. Divisive Conservative rhetoric makes the extremist threat worse.