Is Keir Starmer right?

[AdamRyan]

Today he called the Conservatives "the political wing of the flat earth society" following Liz Truss' comments about the deep state in the US.

I am a big starmer fan, so want to sanity check my opinion, which is that the Conservatives seem to have bought into a lot of conspiracy theories recently, such as "no go" areas in Birmingham, London being "controlled by Islamists", the civil service being run by transactivists as well as Truss' comments.

Or do you think this is a smear and the Conservatives are being reasonable?

If I had a third option I'd also include a "meh - not interested" option for people

Video for people who want to listen to what Starmer said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68418502?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65df29c746578322549bdd92%26Watch%3A%20Starmer%20says%20Tories%20are%20%E2%80%98political%20wing%20of%20flat%20earth%20society%E2%80%99%262024-02-28T12%3A52%3A33.349Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:091e6916-4b3d-4198-adef-cf8a7b9e76bb&pinned_post_asset_id=65df29c746578322549bdd92&pinned_post_type=share

YABU - the Conservatives are not getting sucked into conspiracies, this is a smear

YANBU - the Conservatives need a large consignment of tin foil ASAP

What? No, that is not what I meant. I was referring specifically to the impact of the PC of GR.

What does PC of GR mean?

Protected characteristic of gender reassignment. It's why we have men all up in our spaces.

There are no men in my space. 😭

Ah yes. Well I think that's a misinterpretation of the act personally (but not a lawyer).

Labour have said they will clarify the law and guidance and that they will protect spaces for biological women only. That's good enough for me.

Meanwhile Kemi has spent almost a year "mulling" changes to the EA and the Conservatives don't have a policy. That's hot air.

Add onto that the conspiracy theory craziness in the Conservatives and no, i don't think they are worth a vote.

I see the Conservatives are planning to ban conversion therapy too, so no difference between them and Labour on that issue, so far as I can tell?

Ah yes. Well I think that's a misinterpretation of the act personally (but not a lawyer).

Agree.

Labour have said they will clarify the law and guidance and that they will protect spaces for biological women only. That's good enough for me.

This is what is needed. To avoid having to wait for the case law to develop.

Personally I think you're being over optimistic with Labour's position there. So many statements made by the PLP on the subject over the last few years indicate contempt for any vaguely GC beliefs.

And the few examples I've seen where a Labour figure has defended single sex spaces seem to me to have been cleverly worded to avoid promising more than the status quo.

The Equality Act that means disabled people can access public services?

Fine words are just that if there's no enforcement.

Whereas the Tories say one thing and do another?
What Labour is saying is only ambiguous if you are absolutely determined to believe they are trying to hide some other meaning.

I'm not determined to believe they are trying to hide some other meaning.
I'm disappointed to note that they are trying to keep 2 ideologically opposed blocs of voters happy and rather than picking a side they are very carefully formulating their words in a way that seems to promise both what they want.

No they aren’t, @Underthinker
They’ve indicated they understand the difference between women and people who identify as women. They’ve said there are times when genuine single sex spaces are needed. They’ve said they’ll clarify the EA in this area.
It’s people who want to insist they still mean transwomen with documentation when they talk about sex who are making it muddy. There’s no indication they mean this or justification to think they might as far as I can see - do you have any info to the contrary?

My memory of the Tories is they have done everything to keep Brexiteers happy.

Only because they are a collection of incompetent over promoted cunts, they haven't even managed to do that.

Imagine being a Remainer and repeatedly kicked in the face so that one Nigel Farage can be happy, only to find out he's less happy than you.

And they wonder why every time they check their support it's fallen. Again.

Well quite. Most remainers were kicked out of the cabinet and several left the party altogether. I've never voted Tory, I don't like the Tories, but I do think attacking them over the wrong things is counter-productive.

They do on average have a more logical position on gender. They haven't translated that into legislation yet, probably because A) they think if they dangle it as a post GE carrot it will save them a few thousand votes. B) amending the equality act is a massive can of worms that any sensible politician would seek to avoid if at all possible.

They haven't translated that into legislation yet,

There's a long list of things that "haven't quite made it" yet. Let me guess. They're on the agenda for 2024-2029 ?

Remember they had a 80 seat majority at some point

How much longer do they need?

No when they say spaces for biological women I accept that is what they mean. I just think that the set of spaces they would include in that is a much narrower group than what the average person would think of as single sex spaces. I think they are referring to things like rape crisis centres and maybe prisons at a push, but not places like the toilets and changing rooms that millions of people use everyday.

Fair enough, @Underthinker
I think there’s a list somewhere and it’s longer than yours, but I can’t remember exactly what was on it. Still better than the Tories, who have been in power for 14 years, with a huge majority since the last election, but have done nothing at all.

What is their policy on gender under?
I haven't seen anything definite from them

They don't have "a policy on gender" just like they don't have "a policy on the economy" or "a policy on war". What they have are fewer MPs and voters who have bought into gender ideology, so are less torn on the subject.

What they have are fewer MPs and voters

They’ve definitely got fewer voters and will soon have a lot fewer MPs.

The rhetoric from both parties looks pretty similar and Labour have committed to following Tory fiscal rules. There's a fag paper of difference between them on immigration, the NHS and welfare. It's true the Tories have a lot of market fundamentalists, supported by rightwing populists, but they've always been there.

What's different about Labour is they're no longer positing an alternative philosophy, just simply posing as an alternative.

Is Liz Kendall any less vacuous than Truss? Wes Streeting any less sinister than Badenoch? Starmer any less visionary than Sunak?

Is Liz Kendall any less vacuous than Truss?

Truss is without compare in the 21st century so far. Every man, woman and child has a few quid extra share of the national debt thanks to her arrogance, incompetence, and narcissism. And that's a proven record too. Nothing on this planet could possibly eclipse it.

So true.

Wes Streeting any less sinister than Badenoch?

Well she terrifies me while I think he’s on the right track to improve the NHS.

Streeting's plan for the NHS includes continued privatisation. The evidence is clear that this parasitic relationship doesn't benefit the NHS. The idea that private healthcare can cut NHS waiting lists is nonsense, the doctors working in these private hospitals are NHS doctors. Trained by the NHS, almost 18,000 doctors are being supplied free to the private sector, something like 8bn quid of free subsidy.

"Given that the main constraint on clearing the backlog is not operating theatres but consultants, surgeons and anaesthetists, it makes no sense to suggest that the private sector can come to the rescue of the NHS."

He's also not be trusted with a lighter around pet shops.