Do career women get more kudos than part-timers/sahms?

[Mcemmabell]

I don't know if it's just my experience, but I feel like I hear a rhetoric day to day where the women I know who are very career focused (demanding full time work, considered "high flying") get kudos and praise from other women. I've recently heard relatives and friends talking with admiration about how dedicated and hard working women in these positions are. But women who work part time or are sahms, I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house. Or the sacrifices they make for their children.

Is this just part of the sexist discourse that diminishes the value of any traditional female activity? I would love to hear someone say "Oh, Jean works so hard to take care of her kids." But I never do.

Note: I take the feminist attitude that women should be supported to do whichever of these they want. No one is better than anyone else because they work full time out of the house or because they take care of their kids full time in the house.

Anyway, am I imagining things or is looking after your own children (as a mother) still an undervalued activity that gets very little recognition from the outside world?

Capitalism, basically. Our 'value' lies in being workers, earning money and contributing to the economy. The higher we get, the more successful, the more praise. Anything else doesn't count. The irony being, as someone said upthread, if two sahps looked after each others' children in exchange for money, pretty much everyone would consider that work.

Because it’s not that hard to do a good job as a cleaner.

some of you have really low bars for praise

I don't really care whether other women work or stay at home with their kids but I don't really understand why "kudos" would be expected for some looking after the children they chose to have. What a strange post.

I have done both and you always receive criticism as a woman either way.

We have a circle of older acquaintances and now I'm working full time with teenagers I often have them ask me how I'm managing with "everything" and " are you still working full time" even though they know i am. My husband never gets these questions.

@Queenconsult gonna disagree with you there. Some people do a fantastic job with cleaning. I would definitely praise someone who can turn a filthy neglected house, a bloody crime scene or a public toilet with shit all over the floor and walls into a clean and hygienic place.

But the person who puts their children into childcare to count paperclips isn't doing both at the same time. So it isn't really childcare + counting paperclips is more than childcare. In the time frame of the working day the question is whether childcare is more difficult than counting paperclips or other kinds of jobs? I imagine the question to that will always be that it depends. How many children are at home, what is their temperament, do they have SEN, what kind of activities and enriching outings does the SAHP do with them etc.

The domestic chores and admin associated with running a household are a separate issue. Some SAHMs can get on top of these during the working day and some can't.

I agree that it's sad when a relationship breaks down and someone is in a bad financial situation because of this. Unfortunately unless we all are living a lifestyle that is sustainable on our own income alone then we all have limited degree of true 'financial independence'. I have seen some SAHPs retrain and rejoin the workforce after a separation and I've also seen some WOH parents struggle as their career was no longer doable without a partner to practically support them with childcare etc. It is nearly always messy and terribly sad.

A lot of SAHP do voluntary roles that benefit others, even if they don't generate any money. Obviously voluntary work isn't exclusively done by SAHP)

Hearing reading in school, helping with events or craft activities, school trips, running toddler groups, events, meals for older people etc

I don't understand when people say they do everything a SAHP is doing and working, especially if they have toddlers or preschool age kids. They are outsourcing primary care of their child for the hours they are working unless they are a nanny or childcare worker with their own child? Different with much (nt) older kids who can be left alone

But that’s merely a question of time

you could give a monkey a cloth and given enough time the place would be clean

But women who work part time or are sahms, I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house.

IME most ‘career women’ (aka women who work full time) manage to have a full time job AND look after the kids (aka get them ready for school etc) and keep a house. So IMO they do deserve more praise.

@Queenconsult really?
A monkey could understand which products are best for cleaning certain things. They would understand when you can't mix and match some products due to health and safety (ie mixing chemicals)? They would understand that some fluids or growths may be dangerous to their health and they should use safety equipment (ie cleaning up possibly infected blood or cleaning mould)?
Monkeys can do that? Wow I'm impressed. Go Monkeys 🐵

You don’t seem to understand the act of cleaning isn’t reliant on understanding what to use. After long enough the result would be the same. A clean home.

Same applies to all menial jobs.

@Queenconsult "Cleaners" - as in people who do it for a job don't just clean homes though.

I honestly don't think anyone "deserves praise" for doing ordinary stuff. Hopefully they feel appreciated by their own partners and children, but they shouldn't need "praise" from anyone else, whether they are SAHP or WOHP.

Personally, I would reserve praise for people who achieve extraordinary things, either in their careers or in some other sphere. Nobody should expect praise for just getting on with ordinary life.

do cleaners who clean homes not do a job?

@Queenconsult oh for pitys sake !
Of course some cleaners clean homes 🙄
And some clean crime scenes, public toilets, hospital wards, the inside of buses, offices, shopping centres, schools......and 100s of other places.
It's unbelievably insulting to say "a monkey could do it". Incredibly rude and insulting.

Thankfully in my real life no one gives a shit. We are all just muddling through and are aware that there's positives and negatives for both. I work nights at the moment, decent pay, lots of stress. I judge noone else and their choices. I'd be embarrassed to think any other tbh.
All the people rising to @Queenconsult just ignore. If they truly believe the shit they are spouting then I can imagine there's not many people in real life around them left. Trying to shock on a forum will be all they have.

You're not being unreasonable. However, as a 'career' woman there is also damning rhetoric around that – that you're not as dedicated to your children, that you cannot make every school event, that you sometimes aren't home to put them to bed, that they are 'stuck' in after school club and its our fault. I have never once been celebrated for my career while also managing a home and children – in fact new acquaintances don't even ever ask me what I do. They are sure to ask my husband what he does though!

So I very much feel that it goes both ways, and that you just can't do anything right as a woman.

I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house.

Because it's not the same and many "career women" do all this and also work?

I don't see why we have to equalise everything and therefore diminish working mothers by giving kudos to all groups?

I note that the OP hasn't bothered coming back, other than to deny using the phrase in her thread title.

Part timer here and sahm, as for any type of caring role, is hugely undervalued. It is also unseen.

But undervalued by whom?

If your partner doesn't appreciate what you contribute to the family, then that's difficult, and perhaps it's time to renegotiate the division of labour within your household.

If your kids don't appreciate what you do, and they're old enough to be aware of it, then that's difficult, and perhaps it's time to rethink how you're raising them.

If you're expecting others to value what you do for your family, I think that's unrealistic. Nobody else cares how you manage your own childcare and domestic chores because it makes no difference to anyone other than your immediate family.

Having done both the full time career and having au pair/nursery to now part time and nursery, in my case I had two very different experiences. Essentially, working full time means others are looking after your children. So felt a lot more refreshed when I was then with my kids. Being the default parent is very tiring because you don't get time out. I think my experience is extreme though as we have very little family support so I do get very lonely.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

Good observations.

I undervalue myself. But I also think there is a default expectation that its women who will be the default carer.

People typically value the things that benefit them or at least have the potential to benefit them. Someone staying at home to do domestic work and childcare benefits only the partner of that person, so its a tough sell to get people to value it. Realistically I'm going to value my doctor, my children's teacher, the person who keeps the shelves stocked in my supermarket more highly than a person who's work has no impact on my life.
As for the particular praise for high flying women, well they often have specialist knowledge or skill sets that are relatively rare. The vast majority of adults are capable of domestic work and childcare, so obviously it doesn't carry the kudos of securing and holding down a Big Job. I'm not sure it's particularly sexist as there are jobs predominantly done by men that carry no kudos either if they are don't require any specialist skill or ability to do them.
I think SAHP should be valued and given kudos by the other adult they are facilitating, but I'm not sure the rest of society needs to offer it too.

Too many children are dragged up by adults that don't appreciate this...

Adults who do a shit job raising children aren't shit at it because they're working. They're just shit parents.

I'm not sure why you are conflating the 2 things.

You might have a point of you needed some qualification or vetting to become a parent but that's not true, is it. You simply appoint yourself to the role by dint of having produced a child.