Do career women get more kudos than part-timers/sahms?

[Mcemmabell]

I don't know if it's just my experience, but I feel like I hear a rhetoric day to day where the women I know who are very career focused (demanding full time work, considered "high flying") get kudos and praise from other women. I've recently heard relatives and friends talking with admiration about how dedicated and hard working women in these positions are. But women who work part time or are sahms, I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house. Or the sacrifices they make for their children.

Is this just part of the sexist discourse that diminishes the value of any traditional female activity? I would love to hear someone say "Oh, Jean works so hard to take care of her kids." But I never do.

Note: I take the feminist attitude that women should be supported to do whichever of these they want. No one is better than anyone else because they work full time out of the house or because they take care of their kids full time in the house.

Anyway, am I imagining things or is looking after your own children (as a mother) still an undervalued activity that gets very little recognition from the outside world?

All I know is that come the age of 35, whether working full time, part time or not at all, kids, no kids, one kid or 3 dogs and a budgie, suddenly all sorts of people feel qualified to judge your life if you're a woman. Whether their judgement be positive or negative, as far as I'm concerned they can all get to fuck.

I don't know about kudos but I do more than a SAHM. I'm in a very senior exec position and have done the majority of child rearing (with formal and informal childcare of course) as well as running the house. So it is more in terms of volume and responsibility but not sure whether it deserves more kudos.

The only kudos I needed when working part-time, was seeing my child thrive. It’s my job as her parent. My efforts were purely for us, so needed no external validation.

Excelling at something that requires a special set of skills/education/graft etc is something commendable.

Raising a well balanced child in this day and age might not seem difficult to you, but the current behavioural issues in schools tell a very different story. Those who prioritise their children’s development, teach boundaries and manners etc. (whether they are working parents or not) should be applauded. There are good and bad in both camps. Keeping a child alive is the bear minimum.

In the same way a nursery worker, childminder or nanny is seen as a worthwhile use of time, whereas being at home with your own baby or toddler(s) isn't.
I know you need qualification/follow early years guidelines in most cases, but some of the activities might be similar to what some parents do with their own children.

just because some people struggle with a task doesn’t naturally make the task ‘difficult’

How many children do you have? Do any have any children that are SEN or high needs? How many hours do you spend actively parenting your children and how labour intensive are the activities you do with your children? All these variables will impact your experience of child rearing versus someone else's. It is impossible for you to say that you do more than a 'SAHM' as SAHMs vary so much and it is totally feasible that a SAHM could be doing more than you.

It is also all very well pretending that the childcare is incidental but some SAHMs fill their time actively looking after the child in the same way as a nanny does. This means all the hours you're working and using childcare are still productive hours for a SAHP too. They easily could spend the same hours as you do running the house on top of the hours they spend looking after the children. Remember kids create additional mess and chores by being at home so whilst you think the SAHP can hoover during the day, the chances are they will have to hoover again anyway due to crumbs being made etc.

I bet this post is 99% women. We are our worse enemy. It’s not a competition. We should just do what works best for us and not try and look for praise and validation from people who don’t know or care about you.
Everyone’s situation is different whether that be financial, where you live, how much support you get, level of education, type of job, your kid/kids temperament, your health etc… life isn’t fair and we are different so if you start comparing yourself to someone with vastly different circumstances it’s not going to work.

As women we need to focus on what works best for us and not waste time on worrying about what others think about us🙄

I have heard people compliment well behaved children or if someone has raised a good kid - of course in this instance only time tells. I’ve heard “wow you’ve raised a good one” or “your parenting style must be special” etc

I worked full time, then moved to part time a decade later and I think because people can’t often imagine what it’s like to have both kids and a career as individually they are very difficult tasks - so doing them together is mind blowing for some people.

I often find (only my personal experience) I get the “well done” from child free women that are enjoying their lives (as they cannot imagine a child coming in) or women that have sacrificed their career for their children or have chosen to take care of children - but again it’s more from a point of view of “how do you juggle it all” - a mix of amazement and maybe some sympathy. So it might sound like more kudos but even I’m impressed by women that juggle amazing achievements alongside children.

Personally I’ve had the “you must be superwoman” speech when people realise I work and have a kid. If I did one or the other, it’s probably expected as there is a perception that there is less to juggle (of course that might not always be true if you have a high maintenance household or career).

Also think there is a huge difference between how we (society) might see a woman that has “made her dreams come true” whilst having children vs just working and surviving. As a society there must be a reason we are obsessed with celeb culture etc - we love a good story.

Hmm.....it is the case that the responsibility is more for working parents. But yeah, agree that work can also expand to fill the time available.

Being productive isn’t the issue here

I wouldn’t give a nanny kudos for doing her job either

or a housekeeper

My DH and both work full time and have school DC. I work in "professional" job full time in an office.

I don't have any experience at all of "kudos" for doing so. All I've ever encountered are comments like "You must be very busy!" or worse judgment about "missing out" on raising my kids.

Mostly I'm made to feel like I'm failing in all areas. Definitely no "having it all" kudos for me.

Kudos how though?…I don’t feel I get kudos in any way…nor do I give it. We are just getting on with life no?

I get tons of "how do you juggle it all" comments. Probably because I have a very successful career, a fantastically talented and well adjusted daughter (now a young adult) and some longstanding voluntary commitments in the community. I also did a part time MBA a few years ago.

Lots of people ask how I find the energy to do it all. The reality is, I have adhd and I need constant stimulation. My brain is always "on". Sometimes I wish it wasn't like this, because the pace and intensity of my life is often exhausting, but it is the only way that I can function in a positive manner. If I was a SAHM, I wouldn't have enough stimulation and I'd end up in paralysis all the time. If I have lots of stuff to juggle, then I just don't have the option of sinking into adhd paralysis quite so easily.

@Queenconsult so what jobs - sorry careers - are acceptable in your opinion to receive "kudos" ?

Who does their work to get praise? I certainly don't. I am a professional in a part time role. Where would I fit? Not that I care to be honest

It’s not what I deem worthy of kudos.

I am just commenting that people seem to be fixated on here about tasks that are worthy and then worthy of kudos being one in the same.

They’re not.

Id not expect a cleaner to receive kudos for doing their job, it’s a menial job.

Those that think SAHPs are deserving of kudos are just wild, as if they go around giving kudos to Nannie’s, nursery workers etc.

Um! It's in the title?

Depends what the job is and how you assess responsibility.

I used to work in a job where million pounds agreements were involved. It would obviously get stressful at times but my colleague used to say 'whatever happens just remember that nobody will die'. This was obviously a way of managing stress but there was some truth in what they were saying. If you are looking after a child then you could argue that the responsibility is greater because there are worse consequences if something was to go majorly wrong. Equally I know people that work very low stress, low responsibility jobs. At any given moment is being responsible for a child more responsibility than making sure that an office has enough paper clips? It's all subjective.

It's also not about work expanding to fit the time. If you use childcare then someone is doing the work for you of actively looking after your child in a given moment. My children are at school at this moment so there will be other people teaching them, sorting out their meals, making sure they behave and clearing up after them. This work hasn't disappeared just because my children aren't with me. When they are off school I have to entertain them and do everything else required to keep them safe, fed and happy. Again, this wouldn't be me somehow manufacturing additional work but just the work associated with children once again becoming my responsibility.

Cringing on your behalf OP.

There is a huge difference between choosing to be a SAHM (maybe you have a partner that can support it/can afford just one income) and being forced into it. If it’s a choice - great. If not it can have a knock on your self esteem. It can also affect how you parent.

I was a young parent so I’ve had the whole “you have ruined your life” spill and “you will end up just taking care of a kid for the rest of your life” It’s horrible if you are ambitious.

Women should feel like they have choice.

I think the visibility of working mums is so important. Especially if a woman feels like they have to give up absolutely everything. I also think women shouldn’t feel that the only way to be a SAHM is to marry a rich jerk and so the visibility of how parenting really works is great too.

I guess the social media generation means we can aspire to be many things and we can learn from more people.

Yes totally understand. I work full time and have a child so it's any mum not just stay at homes. Never in my life have I received any praise but plenty of criticism. Even though people constantly are in awe of what a smashing lovely lad I have. Never have I been told I'm a good mum.

Not in my experience. I think they get criticised for not being maternal, harming their dc, being a bad partner, loads of stuff.

I was only referring to my job initially, can't speak for others. But I think even counting paperclips and child rearing is still more than child rearing. We don't stop being parents because we happen to have another job to earn money. Again, can't speak for others but I do laundry, cleaning, cooking, driving, finances etc on top of a woh job and that's what I mean about volume.

I don't massively care either way what other women choose tbh. It's sad in the cases where relationships break down and the woman has no career or financial independence to fall back on, but each to their own. And I don't care about kudos either.

@Queenconsult why shouldn't a cleaner be given "kudos" if they do a good job?