Do career women get more kudos than part-timers/sahms?

[Mcemmabell]

I don't know if it's just my experience, but I feel like I hear a rhetoric day to day where the women I know who are very career focused (demanding full time work, considered "high flying") get kudos and praise from other women. I've recently heard relatives and friends talking with admiration about how dedicated and hard working women in these positions are. But women who work part time or are sahms, I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house. Or the sacrifices they make for their children.

Is this just part of the sexist discourse that diminishes the value of any traditional female activity? I would love to hear someone say "Oh, Jean works so hard to take care of her kids." But I never do.

Note: I take the feminist attitude that women should be supported to do whichever of these they want. No one is better than anyone else because they work full time out of the house or because they take care of their kids full time in the house.

Anyway, am I imagining things or is looking after your own children (as a mother) still an undervalued activity that gets very little recognition from the outside world?

How else do you judge if something is difficult or worth of praise?
We normally assess difficulty in terms of how rare it is to achieve a specific outcome. If something is genuinely easy then it will have a low failure rate.

I think women get criticised and applauded for their choices all the time.

Full time working mum = you rely too much on childcare and don't spend enough time focusing on your kids.

Part time working mum = you don't give enough to the organisation you work for, aren't career minded, don't pull your weight supporting your household financially.

SAHM = Same comment RE household finances, and all kind of other bollocks about your relationship/intelligence etc.

You're never going to please everyone!!

Absolutely! My point wasn't that all SAHPs are doing all this stuff and WOHPs don't, more that there is a vast difference between keeping a child alive and raising them properly. Most of us attempt the latter to the best of our ability but it isn't easy.

I love seeing successful women - it is really noticeable to me when you see a boardroom filled with just men. It's vital that women are encouraged and supported to progress in their careers to try and avoid that.

Anyone can choose to leave work to look after DC if that's what they want but not just anyone has what it takes to juggle FT work with DC etc at home.

I tend to be of the view that giving up work and financial independence is one of the most foolish things a woman can do.

For me, it depends on what the SAHP is actually doing with that time at home. If they are simply doing everything that a working mother would do and not much else then clearly the working parent is doing much more and working harder. But if the SAHP is using that additional time they have at home to provide EXTRA enrichment, learning etc, etc, for their children, then yes they deserve some kudos. I know a social worker who provided so many and varied enrichment activities to foster child development and growth when she was on maternity leave. It was eye opening. She continues to do so now she’s back at work but obviously not to the same level.

Seriously? You think raising kids is easy and not a big deal? Ok 🤣

That’s great you love seeing it but shows you love it because of deep rooted societal sexism. Doesn’t mean every single woman should have to not be with their kids if they want to. Life is short! Hopefully one day we’ll reach a point where one ‘type’ of woman doesn’t always get made to feel like shit because she isn’t good enough.

But why would a SAHM feel shit if I say 'isn't it amazing we now have a female CEO' etc.

People shouldn't be afraid to celebrate success in case someone else 'feels shit', especially someone who made an active choice not to work. It isn't about them.

I must admit I really dislike that mentality.

@Queenconsult if low paid jobs are "low stress" how come my retail job made me depressed and on the verge of having a breakdown.
Another person I know that worked retail actually did have a breakdown and other health issues due to the job.
A relative who was a carer also suffered stress, mental health issues, health issues - due to the job.

And if anyone wants clarification on why I think giving up financial independence is foolish, please read the nearby thread 'affair and left penniless'

Nobody should feel shit about you saying that you think it's great that there are now more female CEOs. I imagine most women would celebrate this in the UK, irrespective of their own personal choices because it represents a step forward for women that wish to pursue their career. It benefits all women to have better representation in all aspects of society.

The bit that's inflammatory is when you say Anyone can choose to leave work to look after DC if that's what they want but not just anyone has what it takes to juggle FT work with DC etc at home. Firstly, this simply isn't true. I know a number of women that dreamed of being a SAHP before they had kids but then found the reality wasn't for them and they went back to work. Horses for courses and all that. Secondly, I think your comment about juggling FT work and children doesn't really allude to the fact that the juggling act is performed with differing levels of success and compromise. This is all subjective and for some, the compromise is too much and they would rather be at home with the kids, others are more confident with the compromises and would rather juggle both. Again, horses for courses but it isn't true that those that work FT are just hardier, more competent women that can cope better than other women. Many work FT because they feel they need to for financial reasons or quite frankly just really love working and can outsource enough at home to make it happen.

I tend to be of the view that giving up work and financial independence is one of the most foolish things a woman can do
Again, this is inflammatory as it obviously completely depends on people's situations and what they want to get out of life. For some, having this extra time with their children is incredibly important and something they are willing to make great sacrifices for. For others, they may be in the financial situation (either rich or poor) where the time out doesn't really make any discernable difference.

I think the most foolish thing a woman can do is make uninformed decisions that don't take into account their own circumstances and desires. Be the captain of your own ship and plan the life you want to lead.

This is brilliant. Fully agree with you.
Can I add to it 'setting a good example to the children as a woman'. That money does not just fall from the sky and the world does not revolve around their needs. That family time is precious and to be valued. That they need to work hard at school as one day they will need to work (think this is particularly important if the children are girls. If they just see their mother at home all the time they may as well think, oh well no need to try, I can just marry a man who will pay for me through my life and I won't have to do anything).

Personally I pat 'career men' on the head at every possible opportunity. And 'BoyBosses'. Gotta love a BoyBoss.

Devils advocate here, so don’t shoot… maybe society would benefit from all children being with their mothers up until school age? 🤔Maybe it would produce more resilient adults?

I think there is a rather sexist idea that motherhood is a calling and not 'work' an, because we're a capitalist, patriarchal society, that 'work' is more important. It's why jobs traditionally considered 'women's jobs' are less well paid and why we don't respect unpaid labour as much.

'Career woman' is a weird and outdated phrase though overall. I mean, we don't talk about 'career men'; 'career women' is something from the 70s and 80s when it was still the exception for women to have a career and it's not now.

It amuses me that if you work as a housekeeper for another family, that’s considered a proper job but not if you do it for your own house/family.
Lots of wealthy families consider everything that goes with a well run house - laundry, cleaning, admin, cooking - to be a full time job and are prepared to pay accordingly. In fact, one family I know employ a full-time chef just for themselves!!
The rest of us are just supposed to squeeze it all in between other jobs.

I think parents get no Kudos at all regardless of working or not.

I’m part time and have never been made to feel like this, despite my closest circle of friends all being quite high achievers in their careers. My family are supportive too. I’m very open about how much I value my work life balance and how much I enjoy being able to spend time with my children while they are little. Even if someone was trying to make me feel bad about that, they couldn’t, because I know I’ve got the best of both worlds 😊

I dont think either sahm or working mum attracts kudos. Both positions really are about your own family's wellbeing. The idea workers work just to pay tax for the grester goid is as daft as the idea sahm are raising their children for the benefit of society.
Most people do both for theselves, and as a side effect pay tax and/or raise chikdren who go on to be adults.

Kudos from whom?

I don't look for approval from anyone. I couldn't care less.

I do get annoyed when one person looks down on somebody else for their own life choices though.

I have observed this a lot. Sneering at people. I think it's bang out of order.

You are looking at it from the wrong angle. The CEO gets more kudos at work then the shelf stacker. It's all about how easy you are replaced by another person to do your job.

Because in my experience, when you work full time you still look after the house etc and children when you're at home. Being a SAHM is much easier than working full time and having a house to run and children. I've done both so I know.

I admire women who have children and also work. It's a lot to juggle.

I also admire a lot of women I know who have children and don't currently work.

In my circle, we tend to speak well of other women and try not to make unhelpful comparisons.

I've done both and disagree. There are so many variables that it's impossible to say what's harder.

Both roles are valuable to society in their own specific ways. The advantages of both aren’t comparable.